he had sort of a kitchen cabinet in effect who he looked to, burke marshal owen fiss, bob owen, joe woods and dick cates. some were on the staff, some weren't on the stap staff. doer reached out. he knew he was in a very sensitive situation. when i think back, it was handled as well as anybody could handle it. >> would you and woods participate in discussions with the kitchen cabinet? >> sometimes yes, and sometimes no. not always. sometimes you know doer was always in contact with var people on his own. there was nols formal meetings a lot, but sometimes yeah, sometimes i would talk to marshall myself or owen who was really the key figure in the kitchen cabinet. burke marshall was also a key figure in recruiting people for the staff. hillary i think came in through burt marshal. mike conway, various people came in through burke and the yale connection, bill and hillary clinton obviously went to yale. well, it wasn't hillary clinton then, she was hillary rodham then. so burke was a key figure both in recruiting people and advising doer, and burke was a very sensible guy. he was a great as