burke marshall, owen fiss, bob owen, joe woods and dick cates. some were on the staff, some weren't on the staff. doar sort of reached out. he knew he was in a very sensitive situation. when i think back, it was handled as well as anybody could handle it. >> would you and woods participate in discussions with the kitchen cabinet? >> sometimes yes and sometimes no. not always. sometimes, you know -- doar was always in contact with various people on his own. there was no formal meetings a lot, but sometimes yeah, sometimes i would talk to marshall myself or owen who was really the key figure in the kitchen cabinet. burke marshall was also a key figure in recruiting people for the staff. hillary i think came in through burke marshall. mike conway came in through burke marshall. various people came in through burke and the yale connection, bill and hillary clinton obviously went to yale. well, it wasn't hillary clinton then. she was hillary rodham then. so burke was a key figure both in recruiting people and advising doar, and burke was a very sensib