what i'd like to see -- look, when this issue about growth versus austerity, i guess i'm with bob reichthat's the key to getting the debt down and getting the americans back in the jobs. but i think that's the combination of cutting back on government spending which we have seen so much over the last few years and cutting taxes and regulations on businesses so they can expand the operations that's the kind of growth i want to see. >> i want to ask you a question, bob reich -- go ahead. >> erin, i was going to say steve moore and i might not be that far apart here. before we do more government cutting on the spending side, what we ought to do is set a target for unemployment. maybe we want -- you know, maybe we don't cut more spending until unemployment gets down to 6%. when unemployment hits that level and then we hit the austerity button and we have major cuts. before that, the danger is that we create too much -- >> wait a minute. hold on, bob. there's a big problem. a 6% unemployment rate under the pace we're at, we won't have a 6% unemployment rate for four or five more years. when

you know, just to add to what bob reich said, i think you also have to talk about equality of opportunity. and the sense that wealthy insiders like the people at bain capital and like a lot of folks in wall street, have opportunities that the rest of us don't have, simply because they've sort of rigged the system to favor themselves at the expense of everybody else. and you know, financial markets are supposed to serve the interests of the economy. it's not supposed to be the other way around. >> and most people -- understand that right now. >> i know. robert reich, you're great. please come back with your populist message whenever you can. >>> when we return, let me finish with why you shouldn't believe everything you hear from the republicans about president obama. this is why the phrase is bs, lots of it now, coming out about spending, about taxes, about apologizing. none of it's true. we ought to know that. you're watching "hardball," the [ male announcer ] we put a week's worth of bad odors in a home. some aerosols may just mix with them. can febreze remove it. [ moderator ] describe

. >> that is the opposite what you prescribed bob reich for three years. >> i have been prescribing theite for 25 years. >> you have to acknowledge it when you see lousy gdp and lousy jobs, your model has failed. steve moore, 20 seconds, give you the last word. >> don't give him the last word. >> i was hoping we would convert robert reich -- >> i was hoping you guys would eventually -- >> more work to be done. our fabulous dynamic duo robert reich and steve moore, conversions forthcoming. tune in monday night i'll be joined by richard fisher, thanks for watching this evening i'm larry kudlow. the world needs more energy. where's it going to come from? ♪ that's why right here, in australia, chevron is building one of the biggest natural gas projects in the world. enough power for a city the size of singapore for 50 years. what's it going to do to the planet? natural gas is the cleanest conventional fuel there is. we've got to be smart about this. it's a smart way to go. ♪ in every way, shape, and form. it's my dream vehicle. on a day to day basis, i am not using gas. my round trip is app

. >> bob reich, i was talking to john boehner last week and he said to me -- he had come out with sortmilar thing to harry reid but it was on the debt ceiling. i'm not going to raise it if you don't give me a cut for every dollar i raise it, the republican line in the sand that they draw, but he was right when he said one thing, which is i don't see why we should wait until the election. and he got me thinking about something because you're going to have november is the election an then this all happens by the end of december and all of a sudden we're going to get a grand bargain that solves -- >> no. >> yeah. >> it's a lame duck congress after the election, and lame duck congresses are not known historically to do very magnificent things. it's pretty clear john boehner and harry reid are drawing lines in the sand mainly for bargaining advantage. the hope is that with regard to taxes and letting the bush tax cuts maybe go on a little bit longer, particularly for the middle class and that's what the president has wanted and he's stated very specifically, but also avoiding that sequestra

but in 1996 or 1997, the capital gains tax was lowered, bob reich.d a tremendous flowering of entrepreneurship. so there. the cap gains tax is what this is all about, and it is a huge mistake to go after that. >> capital gains in the clinton administration were lowered to 20%, not 15%. >> right. >> we're now at 15%. and you know as well as i do that this is a full employment for tax lawyers who are trying to make every piece of income look like capital gains. >> but the revenues went up. >> mitt romney paid 13.9% taxes because of his capital gains. the 400 richest people in america paid 17% taxes. i mean, that's because of capital gains, a lower rate than most middle class people pay. let's get real here. capital gains are being used as a game. the great victory in the late 1980s that bill bradley and the republicans put together and was signed into law was to bring the capital gains rate and the ordinary income rate to the same point so there wouldn't be this kind of gamesmanship. >> i'm going to give tj the last word. what's your take on this? >> i

. >> former labor secretary bob reich. >>> eight years ago, he had no job, no car, no house.ranked number one on the most powerful people list, zuckerberg is 35 on the most valuable list. are you still sleeping? just wanted to check and make sure that we were on schedule. the first technology of its kind... mom and dad, i have great news. is now providing answers families need. siemens. answers. >>> mark zuckerberg, the face of facebook meeting with potential investors in a hoodie this week. divided opinion on whether it matters as he takes the company public. some find it cool, hip, the new thing. the ceo of business insider wrote this week's cover story for new york magazine on zuck. at least he showed up in new york. he blew off his meetings in baltimore, boston and philadelphia. henry, this stock is likely going to sell itself. i'm hearing all these rumblings about people who think he's unorthodox and should put a tie on and all this stuff. do you think it makes any difference? >> no, i think it is going to sell itself. it's a great company. great growth prospects. everyo

. >> former labor secretary bob reich. >>> coming up next, eight years ago he had no car, no job, no the people's most powerful list and number five on the billionaire list. how badly do they need mark zuckerberg to sell itself on wall street? ♪ ♪ one, two, three, four ♪ you say ♪ flip it over and replay ♪ we'll make everything okay ♪ walk together the right way ♪ do, do, do, do would you mind if to be i go ahead of you?omer. instead we had someone go ahead of him and win fifty thousand dollars. congratulations you are our one millionth customer. people don't like to miss out on money that should have been theirs. that's why at ally we have the raise your rate 2-year cd. you can get a one-time rate increase if our two-year rate goes up. if your bank makes you miss out, you need an ally. ally bank. no nonsense. just people sense. ♪ [ camera clicks ] ♪ it's hard to resist the craveable nature of a nature valley sweet & salty nut bar. . >>> mark zuckerberg, the face of facebook meeting executives in a hoodie this week. some find it cool, hip, the new thing. i don't what he thinks about

attack the party or the group in power so therefore when it was during the clinton years and they had bob reich and other there is you attacked from the right. and when obama comes along you're attacking them from the left. and that is your natural position. >> i don't think that's actually... >> rose: what he said? i'll tell you that's what he said. >> i don't think it's fair. i think if you look at what i was saying during the early years of obama in office i wasn't saying "i'm against you guys," i was saying "you're going to have a disaster." also i was worried, you yourselfs are going to have a political disaster. that was the explicit warning i gave if you don't do enough to help the economy now you are going to be punished for it politically and the public is going to draw the wrong conclusion which is that helping the economy doesn't work. so i was actually trying to intervene to make them do the right thing for themselves. >> rose: but you believed they were taking essentially a centrist position. that's where you thought they were? >> they low balled. they played to the prejudices, if