joining us now is bob woodward, a two-time pulitzer prize -winning author and associate editor at the where he has worked since 1971. his audio book, the trump tapes, because out now. bob, thank you very much for joining us tonight. i really appreciate it. as i look at this charge of defraud the united states, and its historic import, i am wondering what your perspective is on how that's being used in this case, in this prosecution, by jack smith? >> i think, lawrence, this is the most important case. there are only four charges. all the others have more counts, but there are only four counts in this. if you look at the indictment, it is all, the first 42 pages are built around that law of attempting or actually subverting a lawful function of government. of course, that lawful function of government is certifying who is the next president. even people who like trump, or don't like trump, yes, let's certify, let's decide who the next president is, and in this indictment, jack smith, and the grand jury have said, hey, look, the standard here, according to what you read, is dishonesty.

everything is mine. >> that's an important point, bob woodward.or being the excellent journalist that you are. >> thank you. >>> the man responsible for a fatal mass shooting at a pittsburgh synagogue receives the death penalty. we'll have a report from pennsylvania when we come back. [music playing] subject 1: cancer is a long journey. it's overwhelming, but you just haveo put your mind to it and fight. subjt 2: it doesn't feel good because you can't play outside with other cldren. subject 3: as a parent, it is your job to protect your family. but here is something that i cannot do. i cannot fix this. i don't know if my daughter is going to be able to walk. i don't know if she's going to make it till tomorrow. [music playing] interviewer: you can join the battle to save lives by supporting st. jude children's research hospital. families never receive a bill from st. jude for treatment, travel, housing, or food so they can focus on helping their child live. subject 4: childhood cancer, there's no escaping it. but st. jude is doing the work, contin

we have bob woodward, former u.s.chael schmitt, and georgetown law professor, paul butler, and charlie sykes joins us this morning. >> walk us through this. what should we expect to see over the next several months? >> what we will see will be the beginning of the process we would see in any prosecution. there will be an exchange of discovery by the prosecution to the defendant. it primarily goes that direction in criminal cases. we will see donald trump file a flury, very likely, of pretrial motions designed to challenge the legally of the indictment. we can expect to see that full range of claims that we have seen him seemingly try on in public over the next few months. but this indictment is crafted in a highly strategic fashion that makes those sorts of defenses irrelevant to the debate. jack smith makes it clear as he designs this indictment. the former president is charged with his conduct and not his speech. there will be no sort of a first amendment defense that will work against these charges. in all things h

. >> just ahead, bob woodward and carl bernstein will join us to talk about today's dramatic developmentshis bigger than watergate, i will ask them. >> no president including richard nixon, engaged in anything like we heard today. >> january 6 committee has written donald trump political obit iary. >> laura: political obituaries. pathetic as lame searching point. they keep searching for watergate, we'll keep bringing the stories that matter. joe biden finally announced he will visit fire-ravaged maui after ignoring questions on it just days ago while in vacation in delaware. i want to quickly remind you senator ted cruz flew to cancun during a storm that left his state without power or water and quickly realized that was a mistake and came back. it was a days long news cycle and he's still hearing about it. and biden dismissal of unfolding tragedy in hawaii, barely a blip for the trump-obsessed media. here is what they are missing. there are reportses, the death toll will rise in maui and tragically include scores of children who were kept home because power outages forced schools to clos

could carry out this unconstitutional move, including, according to "washington post" journalists bob woodwardhe election. also reported by woodward and costa was steve bannon's role in pushing the plan. on a phone call with the president, bannon said, you've got to call pence and get him back here today. we're going to bury biden on january 6th. f'ing bury him. >> pence says that he's talked to all of the lawyers that he can talk to and he has decided that he can't, he doesn't have the power that the president says he has. and trump turns on him. he yells at him. he says that essentially, he has betrayed him. and the meeting doesn't end very well between the two men. >> but that did not stop the president from publicly pressuring the vice president on twitter ahead. certification. up next -- >> we were on a conference call and i told kevin mccarthy, when people are convinced that the election was stolen, there will be violence. his response was, operator, next caller. like a smart coffee grinder, that orders fresh beans for you. oh, genius! for more breakthroughs like that- i need a breakthro

. >> just ahead bob woodward and karl bernstein are here to talk to us today about very today's verys. is this bigger than watergate? i will ask them. >> no president has engaged in any -- including richard nixon, has engaged in anything like we heard today. >> the january 6th committee has written donald trump's political obituary. >> laura: really? >> laura: political obituary. their predictability is as pathetic as their lame talking point. as they keep searching for watergate. we will bring you the stories that matter. speaking of which joe biden finally announced he was going to visited fire ravaged maui after ignoring questions about it days ago while on vacation in delaware can. i want to quickly remind you about something. senator ted cruz flew to cancun during a winter storm that left much of his state without power or water. he quickly realized that was a mistake and he came back. but it was a day's long news cycle and he is still hearing about it. and biden's smifl of an unfolding tragedy in hawaii barely a blip for, of course, the trump-oobsessed media. here's what they a

according to the book "peril" by bob woodward and robert costa, on the days surrounding january 6th steveplans to delay the certification. >> i'll tell you this. it's not going to happen like you think it's going to happen. >> just the day before on january 5th, bannon ominously teased what was to come on his podcast "war room." >> it's going to be quite extraordinarily different. you've made this happen, and tomorrow it's game day, so strap in. let's get ready. >> everything points to bannon was very closely associated with anything the campaign was doing. >> i think an overwhelming majority of that crowd was there to try to overturn democracy at that point or the democratic process. >> i knew that i was kind of the face of so-called the deep state and the republican party, so i didn't want to be out in public too much. so i never bring my gun into the capitol complex. i brought it that day. >> i was sort of nervous for the morning. i was curious to see what the rally was. i was hoping not to hear some of the speeches that i ultimately heard, some of the more inflammatory ones. >> speake

like bob woodward, my business partner. we did a radio show for 14 years together.indeed, indeed was a great run. neal i've been struck by how many specific experiences you had on your journey that resonate with current events. you mentioned somebody getting shot through somebody's front door, for example. the one thing i'm thinking about is we're finally having a serious debate about solitary confinement meant. and you had an experience about the origination of that can you talk about any one of those experiences that seemed inform your opinion or your observations about any current? wow wow, you can use the one i gave you. well, it's that solitary confinement would be one example. okay. yeah, there is. i mean, just a pause on that i had to wrestle a little bit with how i would deal with the city of philadelphia so it's across there's like you could write, you know, books about that. so and i was i decided to focus in large part on the fact that there was this really fascinating prison. there, eastern state penitentiary, which ironically was one of the things that

bob woodward on your right. these are younger versions. then august 9, 1974. almost to the month.his happened. th was a golden time of the media. and this became part of american lore. not only this, here are other examples. katherine graham. she won a pulitzer in 1997. and then the polls published in 2017. so these were great moments of the media. now we almost have lost it. why has america's trust declined? i doubt people are even reading the news. that brings me to another aspect whichcy found -- i find it fascinating but i just wanted to share with you. there are media entities that no more tell you that hey we want to be independent. they will tell you that we -- that's the branding. for example, this is the media chart which tracks down media. i got one of them, if you look at the central which is c,hich is centrist. they have bbc, "forbes," market watch, all of that. but you'll see "the wall strt journal" has two locations on at. one is "the wall street journal" news which is obviously central, but if you look at theight, which is the right, "the wall street journal" is als

bob woodward on your right. these are younger versions. then august 9, 1974. almost to the month. this happened. this was a golden time of the media. and this became part of american lore. not only this, here are other examples. katherine graham. she won a pulitzer in 1997. and then the polls published in 2017. so these were great moments of the media. now we almost have lost it. why has america's trust declined? i doubt people are even reading the news. that brings me to another aspect whichcy found -- i find it fascinating but i just wanted to share with you. there are media entities that no more tell you that hey we want to be independent. they will tell you that we -- that's the branding. for example, this is the media chart which tracks down media. i got one of them, if you look at the central which is c, which is centrist. they have bbc, "forbes," market watch, all of that. but you'll see "the wall street journal" has two locations on that. one is "the wall street journal" news which is obviously central, but if you look at the right, which is the right, "the wall street jou

that was the conclusion of bob woodward's first book, where a lot of that seems to have been based on long recorded interviews with jim dowd, who was trump's outside lawyer in the mueller investigation. there was a request for an interview of president trump, and the question was, well, are you going to let him talk to the special down? they conducted basically an interview, a mock interview or mock crocss-examination, and th last line is a soliloquy, that he's a liar. >> you just saw trump getting in his car. he'll be heading over to the newark airport, to washington regan national airport, and then drives to the court house resolution right here in washington. you know, norm, trump's new attorney is expected to be at the hearing today. you know him. what do you think his approach will be today? >> we practiced criminal defense law together in the same firm. i think that in court today it would be an accelerated proceedings. temp has already done this once, but out of court we'll see the full-court press, where they're previewing the argument. don't assume that they're the same once

and when they met at the white house on january 5th -- >> in the book, parallel journalist bob woodwardt says, quote, i would not want any one person to have that authority. the president says, no, no, no, you do not understand, mike. you can do this. i do not want to be your friend anymore if you do not do this. >> trump would not relent. at 1:00 a.m. on january 6th, he tweeted, quote, if vice president mike pence comes through for us, we will win the presidency. mike can send it back. and then, there was the morning phone call in which the president bullied and belittled the vice president for refusing to go along with this potential coup. >> i remember he said, you are a wimp. you will be a wimp. wimp is the word i remember. >> it is also reported that the president said to the vice president something to the effect that you do not have the courage to make a hard decision? >> i do not remember exactly. it was something like that, yes. >> soon after the call ended, trump would repeat his dangerous lies and put a target on vice president pence . >> i hope mike is going to do the right

. >> in the book peril, journalists bob woodward and robert costa wrote, quote the president said, quoteperson to have that authority. the president says, no, no, you don't understand, mike, you can do this. i don't want to be your friend anymore if you don't do this. >> trump would not relent. at 1:00 a.m. on january 6th he tweeted, quote, if vice president mike pence comes through for us, we will win the presidency. mike can send it back. and then there was the morning phone call in which the president bullied and belittled the vice president for refusing to go along with his potential coup. >> i don't know if he said you're a wimp, you'll be a wimp. wimp is what i remember. >> it's also been reported the president said to the vice president something to the effect of you don't have the courage to make a hard decision. >> worse, i remember something like that, yeah. >> soon after the call ended, trump would repeat his dangerous lies and put a target on vice president pence. >> i hope mike is going to do the right thing. i hope so. and mike pence is going to have to come through for us.