later, bobby kogan comes to discuss the debt limit and spending proposals.e will be right back. ♪ announcer: nonfiction book lovers, c-span has a podcast for you. listen to best-selling nonfiction authors and influential interviewers on the after words podcast. on q&a, hear conversations with authors and others making things happen. booknotes+ is weekly hour-long conversation that regularly features nonfiction authors on a wide variety of topics. the about books podcast takes you behind the scene on the nonfiction industry with insider interviews, industry updates, and bestseller lists. find all our podcast fidelity and the free c-span now app or where ever you get your podcast. and on our website, c-span.org/podcast. announcer: watch video on demand any time online at c-span.org and try our points of interest feature, timeline 12 that quickly guides you to interesting highlights of our key coverage. use points of interest anytime online at c-span.org. announcer: order your copy of the 118th congressional directory now available on c-spanshop.org. it interac

conversation, i wish we had more time, which i rarely say and talk about debt and debt limits. bobby kogan, senior director of federal budget policy of the center for american progress, and gordon, gray, director of fiscal policy at the american action forum. thank you so much for great conversation. thank you. thank you here. so what's the bottom line here is the paradox growing. the national debt can actually help grow the economy and it can increase the private sector as well. even as the government's debt burden gets heavier. but too much debt can drive up inflation, it can make the dollar lose value, and it can undermine confidence in the future. no one has a magic wand and knows how to balance america's budget no matter what the country's leader say. so yes, america will keep printing money. as for the politicians though, the debate on the debt ceiling is going to go to the break. i think we're probably going to be ok. still, there's always a chance that someone may misstep, misjudge, or misfire. and then things can go downhill and really, really fast. and that's the bottom line. ah,

then a look at the house republican deblit and spending proposals with bobby kogan from the center for american progress. and david er, associate director of immigratiosties at the cato institute, discusses a and two title 42 and the economic impacts of legal and illegal immigration. washington journal is next. >> the bill is passed without objection. a motion to reconsider is laid on the table. ♪

host: bobby kogan, center for american progress. "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back to "washington journal." it is open forum. i will take your calls on politics or policy related until 9:00 a.m. eastern time. lisa is first on the line for democrats. new bedford, massachusetts. caller: yes, hi. i believe that the republicans are playing a game. they are not really going in good faith on what is good for the country. i think they are only out for themselves and they are trying to make the democrats look bad. host: with respect to what, lisa? the debt ceiling? caller: yes, the debt ceiling. they are not trying to cut things that -- i am sure there is plenty of things that should really be cut, but, they are just trying to make -- they are making a game of it. saying, oh, well, we should cut. they were only trying to cut things that biden was trying to pass. if they really wanted to cut something, let's cut kevin mccarthy's budget and let's cut secret service to trump. i'm sorry, he does not deserve it. host: all right, let's go to audrey next in mise

host: bobby kogan, center for american progress. "washington journal" continues.t: welcome back to "washington journal." it is open forum. i will take your calls on politics or policy related until 9:00 a.m. eastern time. lisa is first on the line for demo