the boehner challenge came up and of course you also worked for john boehner. the question i get most often is not about the internal politics of this. it's not about what the rules of procedure are. it's why would anybody want that job. i look at right now what kevin mccarthy is going through and it doesn't seem like anything but a logical question, brendan. >>. >> totally fair. the rules of procedure are a big reason why this job is to hard right now. it's this motion to vacate. i think it's a cancer and it became a huge problem for republican governors for many, many years. mccarthy tried to avoid this. mccarthy said he was going to keep it that way but it was one of the last concessions he had to make to become speaker. there was probably no way he could avoid that, but he knew the second he lowered this threshold down to one member, this was going to happen some day. john boehner faced this very threat. i think he could have survived that because he had some good will among democrats who probably would have stepped up and saved him. when paul ryan took ove

in john boehner's side. he wasn't quite the matt gaetz of today, but he was pretty close. let's listen. >> you need someone who can unite the conference and just as importantly, unite the republican movement across this country. that's what i think i can do. that's why i'm running for the job. >> how would you rate boehner as a speaker? >> i have said this for four and a half years. it's a tough job. it's a darn tough job. it's not an easy thing. i'm not saying that. it's a difficult job. i would have done some things different. i represent the same number of people as john boehner and kevin mccarthy and steve scalise and everyone else in the congress. it's we, we have to do what we told the voters we were going to focus on doing. >> there was no vote to vacate, but jim jordan along with mark meadows became chief of staff, helped to lead the push of john boehner out the door. this is the third time this party has been here now with boehner and ryan and now mccarthy. and that's why they are saying the first t

. >> boehner. >> some laughs.the light hearted moments for republicans. and of course the sub text there is pretty rich. boehner wasn't getting votes but he is weighing in. he and former speaker gingrich is calling on republicans to take the substitute teacher option as we dubbed it tonight, which is known as making acting speaker patrick mchenry a temporary solution. both of those people are both causes and quite frankly victims if you want to put it that way politically of the way the broken system has escalated for republicans. girich rose by being a hardliner, criticizing the elites in his party and found himself forced out the same way in 1998. boehner, while initially seen as kind of a deal maker, ultimately took measures that seemed to almost empower or harden the problems and then brought on the fact that doing that didn't help stem his hardline critics. they ultimately were able to force him out. >> i could hardly stand by and allow the party to cannibalize itself in that situation. >> it's become clear t

john boehner had plans of retiring. he had wanted to -- erik kanter cantor had plans of retiring -- realized he had to stick around. this republican study committee has -- freedom caucus, the tea party got into this kind of faction of the party. they have continuously move the goalposts to make it super challenging for his big wrenches for the leadership in general to get things done and so for jon bayne or john boehner -- compromise, not a dirty word and -- >> now it seems like it's taboo. >> now it seems like it's taboo. -- democrats versus republicans was, that shouldn't be how we view our fellow americans, we should be looking at it is, we have policy differences. but so much of what we are seeing on capitol hill right now feels personal, and that political divisiveness is -- at home watching -- nothing is -- waiting to fight and not an actual policy issues. because matt gates did hear no plan, nore's a lot of anger now towards those republicans, the eight of them who ousted him, including that gaetz. in fact, i wan

>> no one not about that before in the boehner part, and boehner didn't work through it with me, i continuedo work through it. >> if this goes through a vote, will you continue to stand for speaker vote after vote? >> we'll see what happens. >> mr. speaker, are you ready to grind out -- >> mr. speaker -- >> all right. i think we've heard all that we're going to hear from him at this briefing, although no doubt, speaker mccarthy and allies for him will be speaking when they get to the well of the house of representatives. but let us continue our conversation, you were talking, i'm sorry. >> no i think this is a donald trump issue because you have people -- donald trump dispensed all rules even if they were still written on paper. so, now you have kevin mccarthy making promises, and it did come back to bite him. but again, if donald trump wanted to intervene right now and call some house members, i think this might end in a different way. and also, if kevin mccarthy had not gone down to mar-a-lago after january 6 and bowed to donald trump again, he may not be in this situation with democrats.

that's what john boehner did, nancy pelosi did. that's different now. and it's a very fragile majority republicans have. if you lay out your turn out on the districts democrats should win somehow comfortable. that's the model, not the real world. i don't think so. and again, i think you've got trump, you've got the chaos in the house. i think there's a lot of swing voters out there who say they don't want to return to that. and i think particularly if democrats, and i think they can make the argument, hey, if trump wins and republicans win in the house, do you really want this ship to turn. no. i think brendan's point is so important. they've created this false reality. it's a world they want to live in, which is not the world that exists. and swing voters don't really exist in that world. it's all about catering to 12% of the population which is our core maga base. >> david, just to follow up on that, it defies logic given that the vulnerable swing state republicans are the ones that have handed kevin mccarthy the speaker's gavel in the first place, ri

honorable john boehner of the state of ohio has received one. the honorable kay graining aer of the state of texas has received one. the honorable bruce westerman of the state of arkansas. has received one. a speaker has not been elected. pursuant to clause 12-a of rule 1, the the chair declares the house in recess subject to the announcer: following the second failed vote in the house to

it wasn't with paul ryan or john boehner. these are the guys that don't like the realities of governing. there are some things you have to do when you're in the majority, like keep the government open. like raise the debt limit. like fund the government for the long term. deal with democrats. basic things like that. those are fireable offenses. it doesn't make any sense. they set a bar that he can never meet. the next person is going to have to meet that same bar as well. it's the problem being speaker these days, you are basically running around, trying to make the fantasies of some of these members become realities. when that's the game, you can never win. i understand, maybe the idea that he should stand up to them more. fight back. all that stuff that you talked about in the open, was enough to save mccarthy. but it was required to get to this point. that's the reality of being a republican speaker right now. you have to do so many things or they will throw you out. it works really well for them, in their own political wo

we saw that in the race years ago between roy blunt and john boehner. blunt could not get there on the first vote and anger --boehner was able to surpass blunt because a lot of people who support them of the first vote did not support him on the second. host: jacksonville, florida, democratic caller. caller: i say i was curious student why no democrat reached out to save kevin mccarthy. it was probably because he allowed that impeachment inquiry into joe biden to enhance, but it is interesting. i would have thought that they would have reached out, given the fact that now we will have someone that is more extreme, to the right and also another populist that will be trying to renting -- trying to run an institution -- we trying to save institutions and keep putting anti-institutionalists like jim jordan and power. host: got it. molly reynolds, how often does one crossover and support the other on a leadership contest? guest: we basically never see that in the house. there is talk about whether we might see it now. but there are two reasons why we did not

boehner resigns.ws -- there has been this division for some time, but it is very start in this case. the right wing has become radically right, very hard-line, wanting to slash government spending, being a thorn in the side of mr. mccarthy from the moment the vote for him started. there were 15 rounds for him just to get elected. it has become a sign that the party is deeply fractured. if we see that mr. mccarthy is removed, then there becomes a question of who can leave the house? christian: you almost preempted my question. ven the chaos, what happens if the shares vacated? do you have to have anyone sit in it? barbara: no one knows who will sit in it, but the house will be paralyzed. everything will stop. they will have to start a process of voting. they will have to find a candidate. somebody will take over. next are mccarthy had to drop a list of people who could replace him -- mr. mccarthy ha to drop in those two people who could replace him immediately, but that person will have to oversee this

honorable john boehner of the state of ohio has received one. the honorable kay graining aer of the state of texas has received one. the honorable bruce westerman of the state of arkansas. has received one. a speaker has not been elected. pursuant to clause 12-a of rule 1, the the chair declares the house in recess subject to the announcer: the house is in recess. earlier jim jordan failed to get the votes needed in the second house speaker te he plans to keep running for the speaker's position. when members return, watch live coverage here on c-span. >> since 1979 in partnership with the cable industry, c-span provided a view of committee meetings and c-span gives you a front row seat to how issues are debated and decided with no commentary and no interruptions and completely unfiltered. c-span, your unfiltered view of government.

honorable john boehner of the state of ohio has received

but boehner faced a similar moment. it wasn't brought to the floor. he faced the rebellion and then leaves. your thoughts as we watch this going full force and where it leaves us. you worked for him, right? you are a conservative who believes in the cause and now there is no speaker of the house. >> it's a really different situation when john boehner was retiring. he wanted to retire before it all happened in 2015 when eric cantor lost. ba he intended to retire by the end of the year. democrats were not driving when the vote was called, because they were up for mario cuomo's funeral. it's hard for me to sit here and not think about the times i spent walking up to this building with awe and reverence. in terms of our government and our politics. i thought january 6th was rock bottom. this may be rock bottom. we had a congressman who is accused of sleeping with a minor, who is under an ethics investigation, just made history by ousting the speaker of his own party with the help of democrats and he ran to the cameras to fundraise off of it. has no plan.

boehner crying because that was a thing and that's today's "topical reference from ten years ago." ♪boehner -- and this is true -- is super into weed now he became a cannabis entrepreneur after he retired. that's how long this [ bleep ] show in the house republican conference has been going on that was so long ago, that when we did a piece on boehner resigning, i looked like this. [ light laughter ] if you were to compare how boehner looks now to how i look now, you would definitely assume i was the one who got super into weed [ laughter ] "no more suits, man, i'm wearing a cardigan and growing my hair out to look like the dude. [ light laughter ] so jordan lost a second humiliating vote, we're going on two weeks without a functioning house of representatives, and everyone is pissed about it. especially republicans, who keep admitting that this spectacle is making them look like a bunch of incompetent morons >> funding the government is part of our fundamental duty, and we can't even do that it's bordering on the absurd >> this is petty >> this is not responsible >> makes us look lik

boehner, paul ryan, eric kantor, maybe they didn't get voted out the same way. but they were essentially kicked out, right, or ousted. and pushed out of the party in a way. and so what lesson could you possibly have taken from the last decade that kevin mccarthy himself wouldn't have learned? >> john boehner planned to retire. this just made it that much easier for him. he is a conservative and he stands by his principles and the conservative values. the party shifted from him. his principles haven't shifted. >> you hear this over and over again, right? fundamentally, he did not have control of that caucus. he may have wanted to retire and i don't want to relitigate that -- >> yeah, but legacy is not like locked that? >> the speakerships are different. he wanted to get power back to the members. some say -- >> how is that going? >> yeah, his idea of when to give the power back to the members empower them not to be happy if they didn't get 100% of the things they wanted. we are hearing that from those that voted to oust kevin mccarthy. if they don't get everythin

remember, meadows, boehner, the base, a lot of folks hated boehner, boehner retired rather than keepyan, something, got out of the job. what is your reaction today? >> i like that framing, chris. in many ways, republicans have always had -- some internal squabbles as have democrats. you can go back to the launch of the tea party and the real movement of moving from less government to no government to no under trump, the government is the enemy. you saw this faction begin to emerge. honestly, even the mainstream republicans tried to curry favor with that faction so that they would not get tossed out. in many ways, the fact -- the fight that you saw today was a fight that all republicans agreed to. have they knew nobody could when it, nobody would accept responsibility for it. i think the one thing that is probably most disappointing about mccarthy's comments, even tonight after saying that he would not remain speaker, is that he is still blaming democrats. he is now blaming the caucus that he enabled, he is still blaming the rules that he agreed to. to he's still blaming the agreement

john boehner was like, i'm done. he stepped down as well.ow dennis that'sert hard his issues with child molestation and he had to go. newt gingrich stepped down after disappointing midterm elections and scandal. that's their last five speakers. is there a way to change the incentive structure, the decent people, people who are not nuts and don't want to overthrow the government can actually have some power on the republican side? or is it too late. >> well, it's really hard with gerrymandering in the house. what you don't have in the senate. every senator represents a whole state. and there are still states that will elect either a democrat or a republican. those members have an incentive to find common ground. but let's look at nancy mace. you know, her name should be on everybody's lips. give me a break. she can't decide who she is. she barely won her congressional seat. defeated an incumbent democrat by a hair in 2020. what did the republicans do? they gerrymandered south carolina and made sure that her district was comfortably republican

that was hanging over the head of john boehner. and boehner released it was best to get out of dodge. that's what i we did. kevin mccarthy was supposed to be elected. he stepped aside. paul ryan said he didn't want the job and after an awful lot of arm twisting by republicans, they finally got him to serve as the speaker of the house. of course, the house flipped back to the democrats. i continue to watch down the way here to see if we have any traffic, any members coming down the way here. again, members of congress, they don't quite know what the to think at this moment. we've not been to a stage like this where they voted out a speaker. we've seen a lot of things happen the last few years, multiple impeachments and now an issue where they kicked out their own speaker. it's remarkable. the one time that they came close to this, this was in 1910 and joe cannon was the speaker of the house. you sometimes hear about the cannon house office building across the street. it's named after him. he had a lot of infighting with members of h

not the no votes early on jordan but you remember the john boehner 2013 election very well. blackburn not present and we were nervous because parlor games going on within and outside of the chamber. that would happen here as well. >> she said in her office to bring the threshold down to make it easier for boehner to win did you. >> once it was clear that john boehner was clear to win, here we are, fully supportive. >> scott, you are close with the leader on the other side of the capitol, mitch mcconnell. you worked for him. what is idoes this tell you whe the republican party is right now? jim jordan made his name as flame-thrower and disrupter and now the guy trying to convince enough of his fellow republicans he is mr. unity? >> it's interesting. two things come to mind for me. one is the nature of the job changing. if he gets it, essentially, he has been a television personality for most republicans. that is why he has such a large natural following because of his appearances on fox news. he is not known on the hill as governing tactician. he is also not a political tacti

and at that time, boehner called jordan a legislative terrorist.the idea now that jim jordan is in the running, a competitive running at that, for the speakership -- that's an interesting turn of events. >> well, not really. you know, i mean -- think about this. boehner, who became the ultimate figure of establishment, ultimately was a firebrand early on in his career. that seems to be the way that people ascend in d.c. they start as a firebrand, and mr. smith goes to washington, next thing you know they're cutting legislative deals left and right as they climb through the ranks. i don't know that it's all that unusual. i would say that, you know, jim jordan's probably mellowed a bit from when he came in to where he is now -- >> you raise an interesting point -- >> i would have to -- >> you raise an interesting point. >> i think the trump endorsement hurt him. because at the end of the day, he already had the firebrand caucus. now, all of a sudden, you're making republican moderates in new york, 11 of them, nervous about, oh my goodness, i got to d

prompting boehner to later call him a legislative terrorist. now jordan says as speaker he is the only one that will be able to unite a deeply divided party. >> i think that i can do that. if i why think i could do that, i wouldn't run. >> reporter: lauren fox, cnn, capitol hill. >>> our thanks to lauren for that. let's discuss this. congressman, let's start with you. do you share the opinion of congresswoman cheney and cassidy hutchinson that jim jordan is not committed to democracy and the constitution? >> i absolutely do. i mean, all you have to do is look at his record. look at january 6. and everything leading up to that. look at -- you played the sound bite where he says how did 74 million people not be enough to win an election. so we'll keep looking until we find something. that is not how the constitution works. and the thing that you need to understand about jim jordan is he is a true believer, but he truly believes that the democrats, or the left, is an enemy of america and he will do anything even extra constitutionally to defeat th

in the words of a colleague, john boehner.a guy who is going to destroy american democracy for donald trump. anyone who endorses jordan, in any member who votes for him, is affirmatively voting for a coup plotter, an election denier, and if all of american democracy. that is especially true for the 18 house republicans representing districts that were carried by joe biden, people like david -- in arizona, mike garcia, and young kim in california, look lalota, george santos. remember that guy? mike lawler, all those pwc up on the screen. are they gonna vote for jim jordan? a vote for jordan, from any of them, for many republican, but especially from these vulnerablemembers, is a vote for moderate streamers'd. it's a proxy vote for donald trump. donald trump, hey, it's a vote for donald trump and matt gaetz, who have both endorsed. and it'snot clear if the republican party understand the problem they have. and a crystal clear advance example of their total oblivion, earlier today, this is too good, i can'tbelieve this, we learne

host: it was former speaker boehner and former speaker gingrich. you can find online on exrveg both supporting this idea of the expansion of powers when it comes to speaker pro tem. speaker gingrich put out an op-ed on it. it was picked up by robert costa of "the washington post." it was agreed upon by the former speaker of the house john boehner on his x feed. again that's just one of the options that could play out during the course of the day. you're seeing the house of representatives there. just about to come in to start this process. at least we were told, 11:00 was the time. but we will take your calls until that time. 202-748-8921 for republicans. 202-748-8920 for democrats. 202-748-8922 for all others. post on x,@cspanwj. mason in tennessee. you are next. independent line. hi there. caller: yeah, i was just call, i wanted to address the fellow from arizona of color. host: let's stick to the house speaker race.

conversation is msnbc political analyst brendan buck, former senior adviser to house speakers john boehner and paul ryan. so, guys, as we watch this vote tick up, we just learned another person who was a supporter of jordan in one of the first or second rounds is no longer, fitzpatrick. brendan, you're new to the conversation. what is your reaction to what we just saw? >> yeah, this is clearly not going to work out for jim jordan. i think the real issue right now is that you have a bunch of jordan supporters who have really defined their time in congress by refusing to accept when we hit bottom, when we hit the end of a road. their entire mantra is that if you just fight harder, you can somehow win. and at this point you need jim jordan to say i can't get there. i need to -- i need to step down. but he has built himself personally and his entire brand and all the people around him never like to give in, they never like to quit. i fear that at some point whenever he does realize he can't do this anymore, he's going to go back to jim jordan ing to start sabotaging s i'm things, i'm going to

john boehner was closer to resigning. he cannot deal with his own conference anymore. he left. just recently, the thing with speaker mccarthy where it surprised everyone that such a small number of house republicans could unseat their own speaker. that was because of a rule that kevin mccarthy agreed to that one member of the house could bring up a motion to vacate and it would be a motion that would have to be taken up on the floor . to everyone's surprise, when matt gaetz introduced that the speaker was removed and here we are in the crisis. we better resolve this because the speaker is second in line to the president the end of area important constitutional officer and we cannot have that office vacant and that house and turmoil especially with all the things going on in the world. host: here is where we are on october 11. the house republican conference is getting set to meet in just under one hour. they will be meeting in a room on capitol hill, a camera set up outside that room, waiting to see if any members stop by and make comments ahead of that meeting. in that meeting

boehner dealing with the tea party folks. ryan being constantly irritated and exhausted by what he called members of the conservative media complex. now this. the problems in the republican coalition ultimately congress works when people, parties work together. we see that in times of crisis, stopping shutdowns, avoiding the debt ceiling deal. that's how congress should work more of the time. we're being constrained by partisan orthodoxy here. >> what are the odds that what john is pushing for right now is a plausible option? >> well, it's going to come down to the decision of the democratic leader hakeem jeffries and speaker mccarthy as well. this idea is he going to want to coalition, government this in this house of representatives and particular to your point about this being a very fractured republican conference we are seeing, it's also not clear who the successor to mccarthy would be even if getting ousted was successful. sure congressman gaetz suggested he would have support for the two republicans steve scalise, but

john boehner of the state of ohio has received one. [ cheers and applause ] the honorable kay granger of the state of texas has received one, the honorable bruce westerman of the state of arkansas has received one. no person having received a majority, the whole number of votes cast by surname, a speaker has not been elected. pursuant to clause 12a of rule 1, the chair declares the house in recess subject to the call of the chair. >> and so those numbers are now official, exactly what we knew probably close to an hour ago when they passed that golden number, there is not a speaker right now. jim jordan does not have the votes. john boehner, your old boss -- i was trying to imagine him sitting at home watching this and getting a chuckle. is. >> big chuckle. >> something tells me he may not even be watching. >> probably not. >> let me ask you what this tells us. does tell us something about the power of the far right? obviously they had the power to oust mccarthy, they did not have the power to install jordan or is this something completely different? >> they've always had power to stop

it bears a discussion which as you said john boehner called him a legislative terrorist. when i was covering congress when john boehner was speaker, jim jordan was the bain of his existence. jim jordan was one of the flame throwers from the outside, the last thing he wanted was unity. he wanted chaos because it helped push his ideals at the time it was tea party or freedom t caucus which was lowering spending and things of that nature. fast forward to the trump era and part of why the republican moderates are reluctant on jim jordan is because of his role -- alleged role in the january 6th insurrection on that very building where they all work and just a reminder, this is just reporting from december of 2021, a text that jim jordan forwarded to mark meadows encouraging mike pence to overturn the election. on january 6, this is the day before, on january 6, 2021, vice president mike pence as president of the senate should call out all electoral votes that he believes are unconstitutional as no electoral votes at all. this is something that pence many times since has said w

paul ryan, john boehner, they are both very close friends. i don't think who will come out of this. but i work with a lot of republicans on the other side and i respect those relationships. they are important to me. i can talk to them. we can have an exchange of ideas. my word is good, their word is good. we'll see what happens the next few days, but this is the republican caucus' problem to fix. we need to look at the seriousness of what they put -- where they put speaker mccarthy, who they will choose next, and how they will treat him. and understand their leader needs to be able to be a leader for this country and protect our democracy. >> power of course irresistible in this town, but it is hard to believe that somebody wants a job as tough as the one that kevin mccarthy until very recently was shouldering. congresswoman, thank you as always for joining me. >> thank you, kasie. >>> kevin mccarthy is out. so who is in and what is next as the house searches for a new speaker? we'll be back live from capitol hill in a moment. is it possible my network could take my business to the

newt gingrich, john boehner, ryan, and this would be the fourth. this is very serious, so we are hoping that in the next hours, we can come to some conclusion, some agreement with the senate, to keep government open and continue the conversation. we are only talking about a continued resolution. but this is very damaging to the economy. imagine that they would be frivolous at the idea that 7 million women and children would be without food, that people who are federal employees or federal law enforcement and our military would work without pay. well, you can handle the rent and all the rest of it. even if his roar retroactive, they still need the money -- even if this were retroactive, they still need the money when they need it. so it is not something that you should be frivolous with. >> why is it happening? >> one of the reasons they are saying right now is they do not have -- my understanding from this morning is they want the senate to take out the ukraine money and they may want to put something else in, border or something, take out ukraine

when john boehner and paul ryan were speaker, we had 20, 30 seat majorities.margin. we've only gotten more conflicted. there's a big trump split right down the middle of the party. people want to get past trump, and people who are very happy to be in the middle of trump. they don't get along very well. plus, it's really hard to get things done in any circumstance, as speaker of the house. so, whoever, that's the issue, whoever becomes speaker right now, still has a huge problem ahead of them. they've got to fund the government, they've got to pass it for israel and ukraine. all of those things could end up being fireable offenses, we might be right back here again trying to figure out another speaker. >> michael, switching gears, former president donald trump was fined $5,000 yesterday, and threatened with jail time for violating a gag order in his new york fraud trial. meanwhile, in georgia, two of trump's allies, lawyer sydney powell, and can chesbrough, chuck plea deals in the election interference case. complicating the former president's defense not only

what would the house of representatives look like with somebody who john boehner has called a political terrorist in charge? what would happen? are we going to have a government shutdown? what happens? >> let me say, first of all, i had a majority of two. there were five and then there were four and then three. >> then two. >> yeah. so it was an even slimmer majority than what they have. but let's just take it to the public. president lincoln said, public sentiment is everything. with it you can accomplish almost anything. without it, practically nothing. the public has to understand what is at stake. our democracy is at stake. what have the republicans accomplished at all, even when they had a president in the white house. >> enormous tax cuts for the rich. >> 87% of the benefits went to the top 1%, and it added $2 trillion to the national debt. >> it did. >> they give that kind of break to the top 1%, while they take 30% of food from the mouths of babies, they take 80% from title i education for children in poor economic deprived areas. they take -- the list goes on and on. and you kn

paul ryan, john boehner, denys hastert. went down with the scandal and lost a disappointing midterm. dennis was accused of child molestation. child molestations! that's in their recent history. and yet, there are members of the ohio state wrestling alumni who believe eight people said that doctor richard stressed his behavior was an open secret. he was a child molester. it was an open secret in the athletic department, and jim jordan must have known. those are the former wrestlers. mike turner of ohio says he doesn't think that's a big deal. but they do think it's a big deal. hbo's gonna do a documentary on this. it's gonna come out. it's gonna be in a documentary produced by george clooney. what do you think it'll due to republicans vibe to have their speaker on hbo being exposed as somebody who stood there, stood aside, while young men were molested? allegedly. >> probably nothing. and you're exactly right to draw the thread from dennis hastert to this. why republicans would ever -- [inaudible] spoken out about what jim j

i wasn't a fan of john boehner, but one thing that john boehner talked about a lot after he left office as speaker, he will go back to his own caucus and say hey guys, i don't agree with them at all, but obama's not a bad guy. i can argue and debate with him. and boehner was really strong enough to argue with people that like hey we're not dealing with an idiot here. mccarthy couldn't be trusted by anybody. he was a weasel. he was the worst person to have a new telephone game, because you ask for a sandwich and he says you asked for crack cocaine. you couldn't trust the man, within his party, within negotiations, and that's why he doesn't have his job. that's why the republicans in general are in trouble, because they don't have anybody. they have people who are qanon people like jim jordan, or you have spines people like mccarthy, who don't know how to make real commitments and negotiate. and if you can't come up with a functional leader, you can't operate as a political organization or even a diamond store front for a terrorist organization, which i said the gop has done for years. >>

i think pelosi let john boehner -- >> boehner left. hastert. >> and let paul ryan keep offices. did not take the rooms away and did that in the past. >> boehner and ryan were gone immediately after they left the speakership. they didn't need any space. i will confess an unpopular opinion. i don't have any problem with mchenry taking away office space from nancy pelosi. they basically worked with matt gaetz to construct a coup of the republican leadership. >> they changed the locks while she was in san francisco and couldn't -- >> i don't think that when you participate in a coup of the republican leadership that you should expect any professional courtesy at this point. i think collegiality goes out the door. i have no problem with that. >> you will be back to talk about reprisals. fred, thank you very much. >> thanks. >>> coming up, the tipping point. we will get the inside story why democrats turned their backs against kevin mccarthy. alyssa slotkin joining us next when "andrea mitchell reports" is back in 60 seconds on msnbc. whenever you're hungry, there's a deal on the subw

john boehner he is the worst. kevin mccarthy oh my he has got to go. only with the republican house can you have 94% approval rating and not be good enough. >> lawrence: 9 #. >> brian: i was low balling it. talk to somebody next, burkett who also voted against it nancy mace because women's rights weren't front and center. we this have happened at all if matt gaetz didn't try to blow this up. no oneish united stated with matt gaetz voted along with every single democrat to oust kevin mccarthy. waste another week to find out what was next. now that mccarthy is out and won't run again what is next for the house. >> ainsley: hillary vaughn is on capitol hill with the latest for us. hillary? >> the house remains in limbo until republicans vote on a new speaker next week on wednesday putting the people's business on pause until they figure it out. former speaker kevin mccarthy saying congressman matt gaetz who triggered the motion to vacate has a personal vendetta against him and ultimately him lashing out at mccarthy for not putting a stop to ethics investi

as the only member who's serving here who took every chance to vote against speaker boehner and speaker ryan, i can tell you this chamber has been run better, more conservatively and more transparently under mr. mccarthy than any other speaker that i have served under. as a member of the rules committee, what, one of three, one of three conservatives who were placed there out of trust, the speaker gave us a blocking position by putting three of us on there to keep an eye on the rules committee to make sure the process was fair and even. i can tell you it's been fair and even. none of us are voting against the speaker today. regular order is at odds with predetermined outcomes. yet the speaker is being accused of not holding to regular order and predetermined outcomes at the same time. it is not possible. you cannot be for both at the same time. i was a party to the january agreement and i can tell you that there were promises in there but there was never a promise for an outcome. there was never a promise that you could force joe biden to sign something. there was only the promise that

boehner fended them off for a while, but ultimately left. he was succeeded by paul ryan, who took that job reluctantly. paul ryan found himself fighting many of the same battles and the election of donald trump. and then you have someone like paul ryan who, don't forget, was the party's vice presidential nominee and he also left congress, left politics altogether. so what you see, jose, over the last two, potentially three decades, is the evolution of the gop. a conservative party that once defined conservatism as preserving a traditional sense of steadiness and strength, it has evolved over time to a party, this is made most evident by what is happening in the house gop, a party that elevates the loudest voices in the room. voices who aren't invested necessarily in governing, but in the case of matt gaetz, who are invested in score settling. you have matt gaetz, who has no real legislative accomplishments, he was able to topple his party's leader with no plan for what comes next, no plan for ukraine funding, no plan for getting beyond the n

john boehner used to be a conservative rebel russell.as you know, paul ryan was a darling on the right. when he was in power, you have to start doing things. all of a sudden, you're a rhino, your a swish, nobody can trust you. jim jordan's going -- would have to fund the government, working with joe biden and chuck schumer, there's no way around the. it's funny, he is actually making a pitch to moderates to say, i have the ability to do some of the governing things, and we can get away with it. whether he would actually work that way, i don't know, but he has at least become aware that the job requires getting things done, whether he could do, it i am pretty skeptical. >> -- >> he's rooting for his time in the borough. >> i can't, chris. >> we'll see, we'll see. >> you can't trust that jim jordan will step up to the rule. this is the same philosophy that got us donald trump in 2016 but republicans in the establishment. oh, he'll grow into the job. jim jordan is not gonna grow into becoming an adult all of a sudden. he is incapable of the

i told you about john boehner in 2015, it was jim jordan, his allies, who worked to undermine boehnerjim jordan and his allies who were a headache for paul ryan when he was speaker for three and a half years. and it was jim jordan, and his allies, or at least those who he inspired, it will ultimately took down kevin mccarthy. so a lot of these republicans, even though publicly, they do not want to get sideways with the republican base, they do not like jim jordan, they resent that it is members like him who have put them in this embarrassing, difficult position. >> let me ask you, i've heard so many different scenarios laid out here about how this could move forward. we have minority leader, hakeem jeffries, telling nbc that he believes a bipartisan path forward is still possib to elect a speaker, because, quote, there are still reasonable republicans on the other side of the aisle. your thoughts? >> well, it is true. when there is a secret ballot election, you find out that it is true. unfortunately, a lot of republicans are not willing to speak up publicly. they are afraid of gettin

boehner, when they said they were going to support him.on't think it's that important. it would be nice, but i do think we need to have a strong majority supporting our candidate. because if we just have a barely supported candidate and another candidate who is close, then it makes it difficult to get to 217 votes. we saw that with congressman scalise who i also would have been supportive of, had he gone to the floor for that vote. >> when do you see this ending? do we get to the shutdown date three weeks from now and still not have a speaker? >> i don't think so. i think it's going to get resolved fairly soon. i'm hopeful it will get resolved this week. it should. we'll see where it goes after this evening. i think house republicans know this is very detrimental to the country, not having a speaker. look at what's going on in your reporting before this segment, about what's going on in israel, what's happening with ukraine, all of the other things happening in the world, including in our own country. we need to get a speaker so that we ca

i made the same offer to boehner and same thing to paul. because i believe in the institution.hink today was a political decision by the democrats. i think -- i think the things they have done in the past hurt the institution. when they just started removing people from committee. when they just started doing the other things. my fear is the institution fell today. because you can't do the job if eight people -- you have 94% or 96% of your entire conference but 8 people can partner with the whole other side, how do you govern? and for them to make a motion on me because i made a decision for the country, that they agreed with, but they choose to do the other. that becomes a problem. >> one, are you planning on endorsing successor to your role? >> i might. >> you might? >> yeah. i don't know who is running yes, sir. i will talk to people. >> and when you look back, is there anything you would have done differently with those eight members -- >> -- yeah. a lot of them i helped get elected so i probably should have picked somebody else. [laughter] >> what if 200 don't give up on y

he says a lot more. >>> let's go to brendan buck, and john boehner, msnbc political analyst. your reaction to speaker mike johnson? >> i have no idea what kind of speaker mike johnson is going to be. i'm struck by how new he is, and recognizing that, having been there, parachuted into being speaker, the incredible learning curve that comes with this job. there are so many things right now that mike johnson doesn't know he needs to know, and it's one thing when you come in and have time to operate, as you were talking about, there are pressing things he's going to have to figure out right away. he's not going to know where the bathroom is on the first day. i think it creates a big opportunity for steve scalise. i think mike johnson is going to have to lean on steve scalise to be one of the most powerful majority leaders we have had in a long time. mike johnson talked about decentralizing the speakership. there's a sense that the source of all the problems is speakers are too powerful. i think that's silly. if that's the case, someone is going to be driving outcomes and that ma

massie: as the only still serving of the motion to vacate speaker boehner, this motion to vacate is a terrible idea. as the only member who is serving here who took every chance to vote against speaker boehner and vote against speaker ryan, i can tell you this chamber has been run better, more conservatively and more transparently under mr. mccarthy than any other speaker that i've served under. as a member of the rules committee, one of three conservatives who were placed there out of trust, the speaker gave us a blocking position by putting three of us on there to keep an eye on the rules committee to make sure the process was fair and even. i can tell you it's been fair and even. none of us are voting against the speaker today. regular order is at odds with predetermined outcomes, yet the speaker is being accused of not holding to regular order and predetermined outcomes at the same time. it is not possible. you cannot be for both at the same time. i was a party to the january agreement and i can tell you that there were promises in there but there was never a promise for an outcom