bohdan bohdan butkevich, journalist, blogger, presenter , i am glad to see you. i congratulate you, how can i say right away that we have 20 minutes, i will speak as little as possible, i will give you the opportunity to motivate ukrainians. let me i would like to ask you to first briefly say what, in your opinion, according to your evaluations and observations, demotivates ukrainians the most today, ms. larisa, please . i recently heard an opinion that is very important to me. it seems to me to be general igor romanenko, who called his speech on the youtube channel justice in war, here i am i don't know if justice in war is possible in general, because death does not choose anyone with injustice, but society can be such that it produces standards of justice for people in war, and it seems to me that this is the most a traumatic circumstance and if there is injustice in society in the attitude towards the war, when a lot of people feel that the burden is borne by one part of society and the other almost does not feel it bohdany, in your opinion , what demotivates ukrainians today most sociological okay, black and white on the one hand i don't want to fall into this again, you know, we've already gone through it many times about the fact that corruption is to blame for everything and so on, but it's not cool, but it really demotivates society very much to fumigate what mrs. lepse said about justice, i'm a little bit like that in what sense do i say well, you understand when you, uh, every day there you choose some money there, buy something , do something there, drive, help, and then you see it as news, like in ukraine, uh increased from the segment of fopa to luxury class cars, that is, cars for the middle class, so to speak, conditionally , on the contrary, the segments fall, and then you see this, then you see, for example, another piece of information that is published there. thank god we broke through this public council at the ministry of defense another piece of information about the ungodly continuation of robbing the budget, which is 60% formed at the expense of western taxpayers, and this concerns the ministry of defense , friends, it is important to understand the essence of our war, the fact that we live directly at the expense of western money, and you see it, so do i at least you have to talk about it, but still do what you do but to be honest, sometimes your hands just drop and you don’t think about what it takes, well, it’s just, how is it possible at all, that is, when the best really die people every day in such a quantity if it is better, of course, the citizens don't know and you don't watch it and they just really start you well, at first it's just great and then you really want to go and really tear someone's head off , preferably with your own hands i think that such a feeling is actually felt by the majority of people i really hope that those people who are in power here will understand that this is already a story, not even politics, this is not a story about who loves whom, who votes for whom. this story is about the banal question of the guilt of the borzeli. well, that's what larisa said in front of volodymyr tzibulok, i asked him what reaction or what action the enemy wants to cause now. in this period of war, in a difficult period of the war, when it entered a protracted phase, and war and life are exhausting, and what action even the enemy can cause with his informational and psychological operations let's talk about this, too, about internal factors and factors of demotivation, we have already found out, and now it is important that the enemy is still trying with his e-e ipso from russia or from ukraine to cause his people in society, so mr. tsibulko said that he wants to cause an internal conflict in society today with these informational and psychological operations, in your opinion, something that today i want to cause the enemy to do, let's agree to negotiate , do something, just don't fight, how do you assess what his intentions are and in his opinion, what should be the reaction of ukrainian society in this period, please, it is very important to determine what should be the reaction of ukrainian society. we should also analyze their steps, not their intentions, because we understand how long they have been preparing for this war and we it was repeatedly pointed out that the information training on ukrainian territories on the brains of ukrainians continued immediately after russia suppressed chechnya, and this was pointed out to us by the way at that time by intelligent chechen people who lived in ukraine and told us from the stadium about that you will be next and you must prepare very carefully. well, unfortunately, i think that many such good attempts to teach us have not yet achieved their goal, because there is some special ability to learn not very well in the lessons in the lessons of your own history even the latest as well well, after the terrible chechen conflict , it turned out so that you remember how much information resources were concentrated in ukraine, and the actual decomposition of the ukrainian media environment also happened in parallel, and then they studied our weaknesses and tendencies to what we are prone to anarchy to the fact that we don't know how to listen to a reasonable person in time to obey if you don't like something we turn on our emotions and start saying something else when landing and in fact, these are very everyday small not at all a strategic-level issue. and it also happened through our reliable channels through our media, which is what is now called hype or what is called, well , this is such ordinary gossip. back then , everyone was proud that he was such an insider, but in fact they were just spreading the word. gossip about the country , instead of focusing on solving the main strategic issues, there was a sector of high-quality journalism, but it was small compared to the grandiose needs of the country, and that is why russia is still studying us, how many misers came here now they are all on the channels of russia, but before that they were on all our channels , we saw them all, we understood what they were doing here and they were studying us, and that is why their aimed fire is now going on those territories, of course , creating despair in the victory of what we we can't afford it. we shouldn't say that we're getting tired, that we can afford to then go and kick someone because there really can be an internal conflict, it really needs to be blocked on mineral tricks and not be in the mood for it. society has no chance without the alternative of insisting on its best features. we have many of them, too, but we must cultivate them, and this stability and moral fastidiousness, i would say . - it is still more important to distinguish from the printing press. i think there is a lot of space here, bohdanthis question to you. what do you think is today, right now, in this period , an informational and psychological operation from russia ? well, from the russians, from those who sympathize the russians will work out the russians in ukraine, there is no shortage of such people , what is it aimed at? point of view, our greatest happiness lies in the fact that the russians, how could i explain it to you, they never took us seriously, therefore , accordingly, unlike western societies , ukrainian society is not normal, there will not be such an impression, did you study it, by the way, they admit themselves already now that they were completely wrong about their channels analytical stories before february 24 and thank god eh hmm by and large they had only one initially very successful ipso which was tight it just came in like from the textbook of a military don how to conduct similar operations it is normal the operation of the first days of the war for these marks. i think you remember very