only two names were in the encyclopedia, and that was booker t. washington and george washington carver, but she lectured about the contribution of frederick douglass, w.e.b. dubois, and how jackie robinson had broken the baseball barrier. and we remembered the opera singer who was not allowed to sing in the hall and had to sing in lincoln center. all the discrimination and the local in justices. like, everything was separate and unequal. the school was inadequate. we could not go to the hospitals. they built a house adjacent to the main hospital. the white people were not supposed to be in the same room with an n-person. you know the n-word? i said to myself at the end of the day that i love my country and i'm glad that that day, i took a stand. i saw through the supreme court that the flaws that america had tried to correct them by removing those horrible signs -- "white" and "colored." i said when i testified at the trial, i went through how we were treated, and the lady dramatize it, so i do not have to go through that, but it is the whole system of sepa

he invited, george washington carver to the white house for dinner. booker t., booker t. washington to the white house and he was just trounced for that. he was just reviled for doing that. and yet at the same time when he ran on the bull moose party he tried to keep blacks from, you try he tried to limit their vote he does it would not have been well for him, you know. so, it is a very mick's bag. i don't think with roosevelt you can say well he was this or that. he seemed to be whatever he was at the moment. anything else? >> did he ever, when he ran for presidency on his own or later, did he ever go back? >> yes, he did and in fact i closed the book up to the prologue with this. he did go back actually when he was running as vice president and again i think in 05, and he went back. he visited the folks he knew there. he picks people out of the crowd to come up on the stage with him and at one point in the journey he was crossing the dakotas and he went on the back of a train. there was just this place and he wanted to be seated alone. he had the porter closed the door a

in your book you say that frederick douglass and booker t. washingtonpleaded with the people not to leave the south, beg them not to leave. the ministers begged him not to leave and a lot of people left the church in order to leave. 6 million he said, between the beginning of the renaissance in 1976, here's the question. if the 6 million had stayed in the south, would we have had the civil rights movement sooner? and if not, why not? >> guest: that is a great question and that is what i alluded to in the talk, and that is that it took the pressure of those individuals leaving the south in those large numbers. remember, the black population was much lower in 1910 and 1920 than it is now. at that time they were not even 10 million african-americans in the united states, and most of them were in the south. to have 6 million people, 6 million of your workers, you know, cheap labor that you depend upon leaving in such large numbers in that way would have to of had an impact on the south. and more importantly had an impact on the north to it force the north t

although, when woodrow wilson was president of princeton university, he did entertain booker t. washington ellen was his hostess and it scandalized their georgia relatives. so certainly they had both devolved beyond the place they were raised and at times in which they were raised. ellen worked very hard to improve living conditions for the african-americans. the people who lived in the alleyways would probably african-americans, but also atoll against another democrat. at one point she said that she had mentally progressed and that she was having more trouble progressing emotionally with the equality to which she aspired. i don't know how much influence she had on woodrow. it's hard to say because a great number of the men in his cabinet were also seven or and they were racist so it's hard to know who influenced woodrow in that regard. >> host: kristie miller is the author of a couple bucks in the code editor and several more. do you have a day job as well? >> guest: i don't happily. i used to be a journalist but i am now retired. so this is my full-time job. >> host: where do you live? >