lukretia borgia, as well. host: you say that his son had syphilis. guest: yes. people had speculated it came over with columbus' ship and had spread. when the french armies invaded in 1494, the italians assumed they brought it with them. i don't know if that's fair, but it certainly seemed to coincide with the french invasion a year or two after syphilis becomes a serious problem in italy and around the rest of europe. and the italians called it the french pox. host: you say that rodrigo borgia, who was hope alexander vi, born in spain, that he committed the deadly since of greed, gluttony and pride? guest: yes. and one the refreshing things about rodrigo borgia is many of his predecessors and successors were equally corrupt. he sort of refuse elled in his corruption -- reveled in his corruption. he felt comfortable enough in his power that he could get away with this. given the track record of people who went around murdering people, murdering his political enemies, it was pretty safe for him to assume that h

there was the famous and mysterious lucretia borgia. people speculated that the plague came over with the ships of columbus. i don't know that was fair but it coincided with the french invasion a year or two after cephalus becomes a problem in italy and around the rest of europe. >> you say that rodrigo borgia who was pope alexander the sex created the seven deadly sins? >> one of the refreshing things is that many of his predecessors and successors were equally corrupt, he reveled in his corruption. he did not care who knew it. he felt confident enough in himself and his power that he could get away with it. given the track record of people like sixtus the fourth who murdered his political enemies, it was safe for him to assume he could get away with it even when orola accused them, he did not being -- he did not mind being called a lustful, greedy, corrupt man. he said he was. >> put savanorola in context. he said he believed that christ spoke through his mouth. he was kind of an evangelist? >> he was a fundamentalist some have descri