and boris vallejo designed a poster for the empire strikes back that has saddam...r his head. it's clunky story but somebody‘s has got to tell it because it's true, you know. i've interviewed a lot of artists on hardtalk, but i've never interviewed one who intrigues me in the way that you do because most artists clearly, you know, have a commercial impetus toward most of their work. they end up with a thing which can be put in a gallery, bought and sold, it can be moved around the world and invested with value, but so much of what you create can't really fit in any of those categories. for example, we're talking about the restaurant in new york or the enemy kitchen in chicago. these are experiences but, but they only exist in their own time and place. you can't sell ‘em. no. you know, you couldn't put them up to auction at sotheby‘s. frankly, you can't really make money or make a living out of them. no. so, are you a commercial artist or not? i wouldn't consider myself one, no. it's not the place that i come from. i come from working in public space, i love working