>> i haven't read "flash boyes." >> and using technology to rig the game. and most people hit the buy buten and assume it's automatically leads to a sale. but there's a lot of inner steps in there they don't even think about. >> yeah. >> are there other examples of that who are -- i mean, possibilities for corruption from people who just understand the technology better or -- >> yeah. there are tons of them. and entrepreneurship and innovation are kind of unguided processes. in general, i think they take us in the right direction and into a better place. but some of it clearly goes in to -- if not outright criminal activity, then counterproductive ones or exploiting these little holes that don't make us overall better off. they just make the innovator a lot better off. that's going to be part of the process going forward. as well. but i do still think that on balance, technology-based innovation takes us into a better place. >> and what struck me about that book and also your book is the people who -- they were pushing a button to buy. and then when it hit

people across the spect m spectrum, including ted olson, the guy that, you know, beat me and david boyes in the bush v. gore case described as superbly even handed. it makes me feel good when people across the spectrum say "this is a fair treatment of deeply divisive issues." well after exploring those patterns and contradictions, the book shows that the court is in the business of undertaking not only some scary but also some promising and innovative inquiries into how government's powers to coerce and to bribe with offers short of coercion might be limited by the constitution in areas ranging from obamacare's individual purchase mandate and its medicaid mandate to the states to plea bargaining in criminal cases to laws that condition federal subsidies on the recipient's agreement to sing the government's tune even when doing so means undermining the recipients integrity and its ability to pursue its social mission. let me just say another word about that example. in a decision that i think is overwhelmingly important but that got very little attention last year, roberts, writing for th

i think like what makes david boyes such an effective trial lawyer is he doesn't have a script. he doesn't go in and have a script. he at one point is questioning a witness, it was a witness put on by the other side and he's cross-examining him and the guy said something about his -- he was questioning the expert report that he had prepared and the guy says something like, well, it's my report, it's my report, and david -- it was just something about the way that the guy said it, and he said, so just threw away the script and says, well, how many of the experts that you list in your report, how many of them actually did you find on your own? and he said, well, you know, kind of dancing around, he goes circle them. he hands them a piece of paper and a pencil. it was excruciating. you could hear the pencil making circle after circle after circle of the ones the lawyer had told him versus the ones he had found on his own. that's the kind of lawyer he is. ted is a -- i mean, he is an amazing advocate in the sense that he he's always thinking -- it's like three-dimensional chess. dur

>> i haven't read "flash boyes." >> and using technology to rig the game. and most people hit the buy buten and assume it's automatically leads to a sale. but there's a lot of inner steps in there they don't even think about. >> yeah. >> are there other examples of that who are -- i mean, possibilities for corruption from people who just understand the technology better or -- >> yeah. there are tons of them. and entrepreneurship and innovation are kind of unguided processes. in general, i think they take us in the right direction and into a better place. but some of it clearly goes in to -- if not outright criminal activity, then counterproductive ones or exploiting these little holes that don't make us overall better off. they just make the innovator a lot better off. that's going to be part of the process going forward. as well. but i do still think that on balance, technology-based innovation takes us into a better place. >> and what struck me about that book and also your book is the people who -- they were pushing a button to buy. and then when it hit