and they were only left to do what they were doing in georgia trying to get brad raffensperger to do what they wanted. remember, at the end of that call, trump says, fellas, come on, give me a break to gabriel sterling and brad raffensperger. explains why he also thinks trump should go to jail, when we come back. ♪ if there's pain when you try to poo ♪ ♪ and going sometimes feels like you ♪ ♪ pushed through a pineapple or two ♪ ♪ colace is the brand you need ♪ ♪ to soften stools, we're all agreed ♪ ♪ #2 should be easy to do ♪ trust colace to soften stools with no stimulants for comfortable relief. the power goes out and we still have wifi trust colace to soften stools with no stimulants to do our homework. and that's a good thing? great in my book! who are you? no power? no problem. introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up to keep you online. only from xfinity. home of the xfinity 10g network. >> i started my career in wall street with a six month old child a negative netw

we now know that it was like the georgia phone call to brad raffensperger. they really told them, don't agree to this. don't worry, go home. we will get you lawyers. donald trump himself, i have not heard the tape, donald trump is reported to us said, we will take care that for you. your thoughts? >> at the very least this provides additional evidence for jack smith in the election interference case. it complements the evidence he is going to have with that recorder of brad raffensperger. prosecutors get to piece of evidence that basically due to things it tends to cross corroborate the other. rather than being able to to smith the call as a one-off, or out of context, now you have another one. it becomes part of the plot, the conspiracy, the pressuring of the state officials. the other thing that is a possibility here is a stand-alone crime. if michigan prosecutors want to pursue it there is the possibility that this is a crime. a misdemeanor crime in the state of michigan for four ushering officials to violate their duties. that could be a crime here. ther

and they were only left to do what they were doing in georgia trying to get brad raffensperger to do what they wanted. remember, at the end of that call, trump says, fellas, come on, give me a break to gabriel sterling and brad raffensperger. sterling, by the way, i think at one point, said he was a trump voter. but he pursued. he stuck to his guns the whole way through under enormous pressure. doesn't it seem so open and shut to you, this case in georgia? where, if this were law and order or suits you have got tapes. so it practically got the dead body. you've got rudy giuliani convicted going after ruby freeman, which, by the way, trump in that phone call brought up ruby freeman and called her and her daughter hustlers of 18,000 votes and stuffing them in suitcases. just bizarre theories of why he deserved these votes that had not been cast for him. i'm waiting for -- trump does not want his constitutional right to a speedy trial. he wants whatever rights he has to delay the trial. and i think -- called this a silly notion. it is preposterous. it is like he is saying he can't run h

the end of that call, trump says, fellas, come on, give me a break to gabriel sterling and brad raffensperger and sterling, by the way, i think at one point said he was a trump voter, but he pursued -- he stuck to his guns the whole way through under enormous pressure. doesn't it seem so open and shut to you this case in georgia where, you know, if this were "law & order" or "suits," you have tapes of -- you've practically god the dead body. you have rudy giuliani convicted going after ruby freeman, which, by the way, trump in that phone call brought up ruby freeman and called her and her daughter hustlers of 18,000 votes stuffing them in suitcases, just bizarre theories of why he deserved these votes that hadn't been cast for him. you know, i'm waiting for the -- trump doesn't want his constitutional right to a speedy trial. he wants whatever rights he has to delay the trial and i think fani called this a silly notion. i mean, it's preposterous. it's like, you know, he's saying he can't run his campaign if he's on trial. it's like jesse james saying, listen, i can't go on trial for this bank

himself also repeated the outrageous accusation in a phone call to georgia secretary of state brad raffenspergering to do with ruby freeman, she's a vote scammer, a professional vote scammer and hustler. >> reporter: from the moment those videos went viral, ruby and shea started getting threats. >> i have to admit, i looked at every single one. they were saying that i should be hung. me and my mom will die. and, you know, like -- burning crosses. >> reporter: both women shared more about their ordeal in emotional testimony this week. shea saying messages she got like, "be glad it's 2020 and not 1920" made her afraid for her life. ruby said a stranger hoped the two would be hanged at the u.s. capitol. "i pray that i will be sitting close enough to hear your neck snap." giuliani declined to testify at the trial, but he doubled down outside the courthouse. >> do you regret. >> of course i don't regret, i told the truth. they were engaged in changing votes. >> there's no proof of that. >> you're damn right there is. >> reporter: today's judgment is just the most recent setback in the years-long fall

that's because very like -- a similar tape that exists with georgia and brad raffensperger pushing state election officials where court after court said the president has no business pushing them to make decisions to block the actual winner of the winner taking office, president biden, and instead donald trump to perpetuate himself by having these -- their duties. so he can stay in office. and that raises the most profound legal questions and that's what the jack smith case is about. that's what state prosecutions of donald trump and others are about. and that's why john roberts is, i think, going to try to find a way to move this jack smith case quickly. it's a very troubling take. >> norm, thank you so much for making time this morning. appreciate it. >>> if you are dreaming of a white christmas this year, this holiday forecast is not what you want to hear. only a few states are expected to see a white christmas. tomorrow as many will feel warmer temperatures and what they are used to this time of year. we were feeling it here in atlanta yesterday. lots of rain is also expected to hit

fact that we're hearing about all of this, i mean, this is a call, another call, not just the brad raffenspergerme x number of votes, not just the discussed pressure campaigns that we know that's already documented, the fulton county allegations, or in jack smith's case, but now you're calling michigan. it seems to be more proof of this effort to stay in power. i have got to know, do you think that jack smith is going to try to use this as part of his case in d.c.? >> well certainly it is suggestive and potentially important. the most important thing, though, is what was actually said on the phone call. i haven't heard the phone call yet and everything depends on exactly what is said. on the one hand, if then president trump said, look, be careful, do your job, the scrupulous, don't rush, that is one thing. he's a first amendment right to say that. if he is saying don't do your job, don't do what the law requires you to do, which certainly is what he appeared to say to raffensperger in georgia, which is certainly a very important part of the case against him in georgia, that is potentially anoth

brad raffensperger, they didn't want to take this on. georgia, the other part of this is that if this does go to the supreme court because of the strength of their arguments, they believe they can make in the public case of public opinion this was just done politically base d on the colorado judges, secretary of state in maine. >> someone else not happy about this gives a window into the politics of this is congressman jared goldman of maine. he is somebody who is always one of the most endangered democrats because nice a pretty conservative district in maine. here's what he said. i voted to impeach donald trump for his role in the insurrection. i do not believe he should be reelected as president of the united states. however, we are a nation of l laws. therefore, until he's actually found guilty of the crime of insurrection, he should be allowed on the ballot. you're shaking your head. you're probably going to say what the secretary of state in maine said. which is in response to him, the 14th amendment does not say conviction. it says

and those threats amplified when donald trump called brad raffensperger, the georgia secretary of state. he invoked ruby freeman by name. i just want to remind people what he said during that call. >> we're so far ahead of these numbers. even the phony ballots of ruby freeman, known scammer. you know the internet. you know what was trending on the internet? where's ruby? because they thought she'd be in jail. where's ruby? it's crazy. it's crazy. that was -- the minimum number is 18,000 for ruby. but they think it's probably about 56,000. but the minimum number is 18,000 under ruby freeman, where she ran back in there when everybody was gone and stuffed -- she stuffed the ballot boxes. >> not true. and the reason where's ruby was trending is because rudy giuliani was the first to tweet about it, to post about it. congressman, if what rudy giuliani does, the damage is worth 148 million, how much more do you think with the former commander in chief at the time the sitting president saying you should be in jail? >> i mean, infinitely. i mean, again, i was listening to that and i sometimes

of revelations, this one brings to mind that infamous call to georgia's secretary of state brad raffensperger, naming a specific number of votes that they want found. has the biden campaign come up with a comprehensive strategy on how to deal with these revelations? or just to let them speak for themselves? >> i think thus far, the president and his campaign have been basically allowing those revelations to speak for themselves. i'm not really sure if at that point it's the right strategy. i don't think that you can just assume that americans know and follow what's going on without sort of hammering it. i think that they do need to figure out a way that they can highlight this as another reason that donald trump is a threat to democracy. that's the core of their -- one of the core pieces of their campaign. these examples really illustrate that and put donald trump at the center of organizing these fake electors and putting pressure on them all throughout the 2020 post-election cycle. >> let me go back to georgia for a second, jeremy. d.a. willis was asked whether she thought if trump was conv

you mentioned the phone call with brad raffensperger where asked to find the votes. this is just another part of one of those calls. >> it's always interesting to see who is on a particular call with him. in this case, you have run-up mcdaniel, the chair of the rnc, her state, by the way, michigan, she's a michigander, that is significant. what is she saying? >>o what the detroit news is reporting she was an integral part of this phone call. trying to convince those canvassers not to sign the certification. i will note, ultimately they decided that those canvassers did not sign it. ultimately they decided they didn't meet their signatures. it really seems that ronna mcdaniel and donald trump was successful in not signing the certification. if you can help, it if you cannot go back in, they're not silent, we will help you get attorneys. donald trump agreed with that on the phone call. ronna mcdaniel has issued a statement about this. she's saying that what i said publicly, repeated at the time in my letter on november 21st 2020, is that there was ample evidence that w

conversation that occurred there with the former president trying to pressure my colleague, brad raffensperger, to find votes as well. we also know this was not an isolate ds incident. and that is why a federal investigation is important. >> it wasn't an isolated incident. i'm wondering, given the fact donald trump is running for president again, how concerned are you about local officials' ability to withstand potential pressure in the next election cycle if trump loses again? >> we've been preparing for that, frankly, since january 6, 2021, where it became very clear to me that we were witnessing the beginning, not the end, of what has turned out to be a multi-year effort to subvert our elections and harm citizens' faith in their democracy. so, we are prepared. we've got a strategy ourselves in michigan, and we're coordinating and working with my colleagues in the other battleground states as well because we are fully prepared -- hoping for the best but preparing for every contingency and every tactic and every lever that could be pulled again, if any losing candidate would try to subvert th

brad raffensperger. we know he was on the receiving end of one of donald trump's efforts to try to flip an election result. both have said we don't believe that we have the legal power to throw him off the ballot. >> one success going through the courts. explain why. >> so the map doesn't look great in terms of how the cases have come out for people trying to throw trump off the ballot. let's look at the landscape. those legal challenges have been rejected by courts. some bay the state supreme court, some by lower courts. but in these six state, 0 for 6. most recently just yesterday the michigan supreme court said no, we're not throwing him off the ballot. there have been a dozen or so other cases where plaintiffs have brought lawsuits and withdrawn them for various reasons. so those lawsuits have in the gotten anywhere. colorado at this point stands alone. they are the only state court that has thrown donald trump off the ballot. but of course they are not going to be the final word. last week the color

that sound, again, it's sound we've all heard a million times in the wake of the call with brad raffenspergerld trump is the front runner for the republican nomination. donald trump is leading in general election polls across the country. donald trump played a critical central role in the to some degree destruction of two womens' lives who were just there to help count votes. how is that possible? >> a couple of things strike me listening to this. the first is that he was so into the details that he was repeating her name, you know. a good number of times in the course of this. second, that as this argument played out, it was clear that whatever rudy giuliani was doing was basically echoing the boss and trying to make sure he was in the boss's good graces, but we're listening to that and thinking not about whether rudy giuliani is going to get -- have to do a huge payment here if he has the money, we're thinking ahead to the georgia case if it comes to trial because the impact of that is you're hearing the president from the white house making this case, and that's the really interesting elem

time there is specific audio captured of donald trump, like that call with secretary of state brad raffensperger out of georgia, and some of the other instances we have heard of calls, every time there's audio it is the encapsulation of what happened in realtime, not just people recreating what they remember, perhaps even downplaying exactly how forceful donald trump was in pressuring people to let him win. >> we have to think it is only a matter of time now before we hear this recording. we haven't heard it yet but you have to think it is soon. thank you, as always. we are joined now by former michigan director of elections. chris thomas. now a fellow at the bipartisan election project. chris, stunning stuff, maybe not that surprising. you say there was no legal justification for those canvassers to block certification. what can you tell us? >> there was not any legal basis for doing that. these positions, two democrats into republicans representing their parties. they are required to certify the results of the precinct returns. they check the precinct returns during the 14 days after the elect

that is the duty in the province of the state and some would know trump is calling brad raffensperger in georgia, or making calls to the board of canvassers in michigan, none of it is within the scope of the duties of a president. and so that is the legal question whether he is acting in the outer perimeter of presidential duties, and there's no question that those activities exceed that outer perimeter. >> andrew weissmann, let's go to your scheduling tweet where you suggested the distinct possibility that the manhattan criminal case against donald trump for paying off stormy daniels for her silence may end up being the first of these cases, criminal cases to actually go to trial. >> people will remember that alvin bragg manhattan district attorney was the first prosecutor to bring charges. but in a sign of what i think is really a class act, he said i am not gonna stand on ceremony if essentially jack smith needs to go first, because it's a federal case and there's a real time crunch on his part. because he would like that to be done before the election, whereas alvin bragg, no ques

perhaps most notoriously, trump pressured georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger on january 2nd21, asking them to overturn the state's election results, a second call in georgia made in december 2020 to then georgia house speaker david ralston attempting to get him to call a special legislative session to overturn biden's victory in the state. there's a couple other calls there, as you can see. and now this call in michigan with these -- with these local county officials. and it's unclear, kate, if the special counsel is, you know, has this audio himself, if he doesn't, i think there's no question that he wants to get it. and it's still unclear if they'll use this in the trial. this is just another piece of evidence against donald trump that they could potentially use. >> alayna, great to see you, thank you so much. >> thank you. >>> i'm joined by senior legal analyst and u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york, elie honig, ladies and gentlemen, he is back again with more for you. this tape is -- says a lot. it is evidence that is sort of a pattern by donald trump. t

brad raffensperger, knowing about insurrection, he rejected it. we are waiting to hear from maine.n the courts, the courts have rejected this not because they found donald trump did not engage in insurrection. they rejected it out of due process. you can do the math. i think it's about to be knocked down when the supreme court reverses this. >> george, final word? >> that may very well be the case. the problem is, court have to apply the law as it's written. not as they want it to be. they can't avoid difficult decisions. if you become a judge, you have to apply the law as written. it's like if you become an hr director at a company, you have to fire people. that's what's going on here is court are looking for a way out. right now, there is no good, sensible legal way out. >> i love a robust discussion to kick off our 9:00 p.m. hour. thank you both for that. >>> we will see if we continue this. the iowa caucus is drawing closer. donald trump sharing an ominous word cloud at one of his rivals is pushing back on calls for him to drop out. we will get reaction from former trump white

. >> well, it sounds exactly like the conversation that donald had with brad raffensperger to apply pressure to obtain what he wants, and that was to be able to retain power. you know, i've been saying for so long now that there was a vote that vladimir putin once made that donald thought was genius. and the quote is, "it doesn't matter who you vote for, all that matters is who's counting the vote." that's what donald trump was trying to effectuate here. you're right. when that recording comes out -- just like all the recordings that have come out that have donald's voice on it, none of them are good for him. every single one shows exactly what it is that donald wanted to be accomplished. the problem, though, is that there's still this group of americans, these maga supporters, that it doesn't matter what they hear. it doesn't matter what they see. they're still so knee deep into this dumpster cult of donald that they refuse to extricate themselves. >> but you know what trump is going to say when this -- if and when this recording comes out, he'll say it was yet another perfect phone call. h

in georgia it wasn't just the secretary of state, brad raffensperger. he was putting the pressure on governor brian kemp. he was putting the pressure on the leaders of the state legislature. by the way, these are all republicans. these were all republicans. fortunately they all stood up and did the right thing, despite the fact that the most powerful republican in the land, the one they had all endorsed in that election, was pressuring them to do something that was counter to the oath that they had sworn. >> you almost forget that for a second. these are canvassers. a man junior canvassers and a president of the united states is on the phone pressuring you. it's stunning when you lay it out like that, john, but you can't forget who the two people are on the phone. let's talk about the colorado situation. help us understand, what is going on inside team trump. what are they thinking? nobody can be surprised at this point that he wants immunity on everything. >> yeah, in terms of the colorado case, you're talking about it in terms of getting him off the b

battleground states, i'm going to be talking with al schmidt in pennsylvania, with nevada, brad raffenspergerthe impact that this institution could have not among our voters but in the nation. so we're taking this seriously. we're looking at it carefully and weighing all the thorny issues at play. >> hi again, everyone, 5:00 in new york. i'm in for nicolle wallace. an update out of michigan on that thorny issue you just heard secretary of state jocelyn benson describe. that of donald trump's eligibility to be on the ballot. the fundamental question, whether section 3 of the 14th amendment which says no one who engage friday insurrection or rebellion after having sworn a oath to defend the constitution can hold officepplies to the twice impeached four times indicted president. the michigan state court declining to hear a case that argued that trump should be left off the state's primary ballot ruling not on the question of insurrection but on procedural grounds. it is, quote, not persuaded that the questions presentedhould be reviewed by this court. "theashington post" reports that mark brewer

there are the two calls that george was mentioning earlier in georgia brad raffensperger and watson andto remind you there's a fourth call to now deceased house speaker david rollston who provided a copy to the special purpose grand jury that fani willis convened. we now know this guy that infamously doesn't text, doesn't e-mail was foiled by the smart phone era and a bunch of quick thinking folks when he made these granular weedy calls to the wayne county commissioners, fired up the phone to record him having these conversations giving rise to as you note potentially some state law claims but also additional evidence of the wrongdoing in jack smith's case. >> yes, also. you're firing up the recorder -- the iphone recorder not because you're like this is a cool souvenir. you're firing it up as brad raffensperger because this is really legally objectionable, and i immediately need some evidence to cover myself from what might be a blatant act of criminality. i think that's fairly clear in all this. >> if i would lean into a phone call with a criminal, i would record it too. there's one o

brad raffensperger, guy who knows a thing out to about insurrection. -- in the courts, the courts have rejected this not because they found donald trump did not engage in insurrection. courts rejected this on due process graham. -- one out of about 18 or so lawsuits that's gotten any traction. you can do the math on that. the batting average is 0-52, i think it's about to be knocked down to 000 in the supreme court reverses this. >> george, final where it? >> that may very well be the case, but the problem is the courts have to apply the law as it's written. not as they want it to be, and they can't avoid difficult decision. if you become a judge, you have to apply the law as written. if you become an hr director at a company, you have to fire people. that's what's happening, courts are looking for a way out. right now, there is no good sensible way out. >> elie honig, george conway, i love a robust discussion to kick off our nine pm our. thank you both for that. up ahead, we'll see if we continue this. the iowa caucuses drawing closer. donald trump, sharing anonymous word cloud as one

and the day after new year's trump was on the phone with georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger asking him to find trump nearly 12,000 votes. what about the stockings? was there no christmas ham that year? apparently in trump world it is fine to work over the holidays if the work is trying to overthrow the american democracy. but when the work is the most important legal case in modern american history, well, then suddenly jack smith is the literal grinch. attorneys need eggnog, too, you know. the special counsel isno amaziny ahead of this argument. within hours of them they immediately filed their response and asked theme appeals court t respond tonight. trump's legal teamwork will be due december 23rd, two days before christmas, eight days before the last night of hanukkah, and three days before kwanzaa, plenty of time for ginger bread houses. ifgi trump's team still has gris i would like to remind them on december 23rd of 2020, not only did trump have time to pardon 26 people including paul manafort, roger stone, and charles kushner, but trump also found the time to call the

involvement with the infamous january 2nd, 2021, phone call with trump and georgiaretary of state brad raffensperger. listen to this pointed exchange over the limits of meadows' defense. >> according to him, it seems that everything was within his official duties. and that just cannot be right. i mean, what is your answer to that? >> well, i'm not sure what you mean, your honor, exactly by "everything." >> i mean, everything as far as what was described in the indictment. whh would be what i would prefer to as electioneering on behalf of a specific political candidate and an alleged effort to unlawfully change the outcome of the election. >> one of the reasons meadows is seeking to move his case to federal court is because it will likely give him a better chance with a jury pool. the state prosecution would be tried in fulton county, metropolitan atlanta, which leans blue. as the "atlanta journal-constitution" notes, "if meadows is successful in moving the case, he would receive a broader and slightly more conservative jury pool in federal court." the judges did not indicate when they would issue th

got you handled on the attorney's front, we will get your lawyers covered, so now you have brad raffenspergere michigan call and who knows what else, so the election interference case is getting more and more solid. i understand your perspective on the colorado case. i just want to throw into the mix the fact that the judges who wrote for the majority opinion, those losers from the ivy league and all of that, cited neil gorsuch, right, and his decision -- >> kennedy: who is from colorado. >> jessica: where he affirmed the states right to kick someone off the ballot if they are ineligible in section three of the 14th amendment. nowhere does it say he has to be convicted of insurrection or rebellion. i'm just saying -- >> kennedy: lack of faith and due process. that is where they have a legal challenge. >> jessica: i never said i was a lawyer on tv when you're having a problem, i'm just stating facts about how they defended their position. and they also engaged with the fact that the dissenting justices said no due process but didn't talk at all about the five day bench trial that president tru

mainstream republican, he sided with the skeptics by voting to call for an investigation of brad raffenspergerld trump saying that he would not reverse donald trump's election defeat. there are concerns here in georgia that that could be a prelude of efforts to discredit the 2024 election next year. >> always great to have you on the program. thank you. >>> coming up, new backlash against rite aid. why the ftc is slamming the chain for its attempts to stop shop lifters. next. s attempts to stop shop lifters next nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. whenever you're hungry, there's a deal on the subway app. buy one footlong, get one 50% off in the subway app today. now that's a deal worth celebrating. man, what are you doing?! get it before it's gone on the subway app. ♪♪ the first time you made a sale online with godaddy was also the first time you heard of a town named dinosaur, colorado. we just got an order from dinosaur, colorado. start an easy to

but with the lower courts have held here before is that, when he was calling brad raffensperger, and when he had people trying to submit fake electors, he was not acting as president. he was acting as a candidate for president. and those are two different things. so i suspected, ultimately, on the merits that's what we will get. if you say, in the meantime, it could bring a significant delay in the trial. >> reporter: let me ask you this. if the issues that he's immune because he was president, or he's immune because he was impeached, but not convicted? >> well, those are both issues. those are both issues before the court, that someone who was impeached, but not convicted is subject to double jeopardy. and that is not permissible. that is my issue. i think that is probably the weakest of the two. the immunity question is a significant legal issue. but i think, if you look at the facts, that he was acting as a candidate, not within the scope of his duties as president. by the, way which does not include the administration of elections. some people are confused about that. that is a m

moment, if you will, of losing our democracy because whether it is mike pence on january 6th, brad raffensperger and not finding him a vote, or these individuals and wayne county, i guess that it is not the law it is just people interpreting what they think they should be doing. that is how close we came to losing our democracy. >> that is what i want people to pay attention to as we turn the calendar year into 2024. the reality is the only reason why we still have a democracy is because of a handful of people who decided that the constitution was what they took an oath to and not donald trump. in 2024, what we know is that those fences will have already been tested and those people who pledged their loyalty to the united states will no longer be there. people need to be very clear about where we are right now. and what donald trump could possibly do in 2024, which is a no holds bar presidency with a bunch of sikh offense which are doing his bidding. >> definitely a scary thought because as we know it is not the guardrails, it literally came down to a handful of people who interpreted these matt

so, because he set up that call with brad raffensperger and try to get into the room when they were conducting an audit in georgia, that was all within the scope of his duties. but he failed to differentiate between donald trump as president and donald trump as candidate. because the president has no role to play when it comes to administration of elections, that is for the states, then mark meadows doing those things on his behalf is also not within the scope of his official duties. they're both acting in a campaign posture, they were not in the act of governing. so i think, based on what we heard from the judges today, it seems that you can kind of see the writing on the wall here that they are very skeptical that removal is going to be an option for mark meadows. >> when, these conversations, these arguments take place in court, but let's centered back into the practical realities of why these are even taking place. there is still a pending indictment, right, in fulton county? meadows is one of 15 remaining codefendants that have yet to take a plea in the d a fani willis r. i. c. o. case. h

that is purely within the province of the states, and so when he's calling brad raffensperger in georgia, or when he's overseeing the administration of false electors, that's not within the scope of the presidency. that's where he plays a game, i think some people think the president is all powerful and have the duties to do everything, and he doesn't. the administration of elections is one of the things outside of the scope. i think if this gets to the supreme court, they deal with it quite some early and they reject it. >> peter, let me pivot to ukraine and russia, we saw one of the largest air assaults of the war so far. have we underestimated putin? does this seem like a change in strategy? >> well, i think we're paying attention to a lot of other things and ukraine has kind of fallen off of our radar, not fallen off the radar of the government, but obviously our larger conversation. because we have so many other things to focus on. but you're right, putin has not done with this war. he has lost the war in the sense of how he started, let's not forget that. he started with the idea o

course, that infamous call he arranged between then president trump and secretary of state brad raffenspergerrgia. that was his argument, that's what his team has been arguing all along. what we heard from this panel of judges basically says, no, that's not the case. it really affirms what we already heard from the district judge, which was that the actions pain, the alleged actions taken by mark meadows had more to do with the trump campaign than the president of the united states. that's why the judge rejected this argument initially and that's why these judges upheld that rejection. i think one other thing, ana, very interesting in all of this is the quick turn around in which we got this decision. remember, these arguments happened on friday. we got the decision on monday. so we're talking about the next business day that we heard the decision from the appeals court. >> thank you so much, blayne alexander. how significant is this ruling and how do you see it impacting other cases like jeffrey clark's case, a couple of the georgia fake electors, who are trying to move their cases to federa

now top republicans in georgia, including governor brian kemp and secretary of state brad raffenspergerarge roster signals the -- the d.a., fani willis, and her fellow prosecuting to addressing what was already a sprawling case. the case is 15 defendants, which is -- 19 after four them already took plea deals. they have been accused of engaging in a racketeering conspiracy to overturn the results of georgia's 2020 election. all of whom, including donald trump, and have a originally pleaded not guilty. and, most defendants in the case have the optional possibility of a plea deal, the guardian has reported that trump, mark meadows, and rudy giuliani will be ineligible for a deal, signaling that the prosecutors consider there being targets. my pel is back with me. dana, i'll srt with you on this roun and let's start with this trial date trump's lawyer steve sato said last week that the constitution supremacy clause would delay this trial until 2029, if trump were to be elected again in 2024. we are in a unique situation, because this has not been tested yet. one of the many constitutional

weird to a lot of americans that donald trump was following the secretary of state of georgia, brad raffensperger. now he's calling county chairs. where does this stop. toys, the mask you about the colorado case. you heard judge luttig saying supreme court could take it. supreme court could say this is colorado's decision and its with them. what do you think happened? >> yeah, i think this is a tough one to call. but the problem here, if the supreme court doesn't take it, is that you could end up with a patchwork quilt of states across the country making different rulings as to whether the former president could be on the ballot. i've heard andrew express this same view. i tend to think that the court will find some sort of a procedural off that lets them make a finding that trump can't be excluded from the ballot. perhaps it will be that he didn't get sufficient process early on in the colorado proceedings. even with that, there is this delay issue that goes on. anytime you have these rulings trump will certainly wait until the last minute if he can, to go to the supreme court, in an effort to f

on the day after new years, trump was on the phone with georgia secretary of state brad raffenspergerng him to find trump nearly 12,000 votes. how do they find time throughout the presidents or fill the stockings? was there no christmas ham that year? apparently in trump world, it is fine to work over the holidays if the work is trying to overthrow american democracy. but when the work is the most important legal case in modern american history, suddenly, jack smith is the literal grinch. attorneys need eggnog as well, you know? special counsel is amazingly already ahead of even this argument. within hours of the trump grinch filing, the special counsel's office immediately filed their response and asked the appeals court to respond tonight. and the d.c. circuit court did just that. the trump team's legal work will now be due on december 23rd, two days before christmas, eight days after the last night of hanukkah, and three days before kwanzaa. plenty of time for gingerbread houses. and if trump's legal team still has gripes with the 23rd of december, i would like to remind them that

we also heard about a phone call from the georgia secretary of state, brad raffensperger.wo election workers, the former president tried to pressure to keep them from certifying the election results, accusing them also of miss counting votes. that dominion lawsuit, those voting machines that the former president and his team alleged did not work properly. of course, by now, we know all of that did not happen. it is stunning that, again, we are hearing new recordings come out in more states. and we could see how that would impact jack special counsel jack smith's case here in washington. >> you make a good point, the timing of this is very curious. thank you, julie tsirkin, for that. joining me now is kristy greenberg, former federal prosecutor and former deputy chief of the -- division at southern district of new york. and charles coleman, former brooklyn prosecutor and msnbc very festive legal analyst. anyway, welcome to you both. all right, santa, give me a sense of your initial reaction to this decision by the supreme court. does it make sense to make this play out in t

in trump's case it was on a phone call with brad raffensperger when he was trying to convince him tohe election for him. count on seeing these same stories from ruby freeman and shaye moss to devastating impact on a jury again. >> that's such a good point. it's about more than this one case. thank you so much. appreciate it, lieu is a rubin, you'll be back with us shortly. ryan reilly, thanks for your reporting. >>> let's turn to capitol hill where the house has officially authorized an impeachment inquiry into president biden. that vote falling strictly along party lines with democrats blasting the move as a political stunt. it came hours after hunter biden spoke on capitol hill accusing republicans of distorting the facts, and he refused to sit for a closed-door deposition. the question now, will house republicans move forward with their threats to hold him in contempt of congress? nbc's ali vitali is on the hill for us. walk us through how this vote went down and what's next. >> reporter: welcome to day one of the official impeachment inquiry, it both changes everything and nothin

does anything stand out compared to the georgia call with brad raffensperger. >> in jack smith's indictment alleging election interference, he alleges trump was pushing in a number of states to pressure election officials to push the election his way. there's the recording in georgia which itself is very powerful evidence. standing alone it can be explain away. when you have a similar call occurring in a another state as part of the scheme, the two corroborate each other. this is excellent evidence for jack smith. it's excellent evidence for fani willis because it could be admissible under 404 b that allows evidence of other bad acts to prove a person's motive, intent or modus operandi. i think it's relevant there. i think there's a possibility that the individuals involved may themselves face criminal exposure which would make them valuable witnesses for jack smith, and others. >> a couple of points, intent to knowledge, they seem to be hard things to prove when it comes to donald trump becsef his constant denial, his blame game tactics. but these recordings prove he had knowledge that wha

. >> reporter: republican secretary of state brad raffensperger oversees georgia elections and voterhat the system is riddled with fraud valid? >> no. we have objective voter rolls. they're clean. they're accurate. >> reporter: gail lee told us she wants fairness, not partisan advantage. but raffensperger said elections in georgia have never been fairer. >> it's never been easier to vote. we are, we believe, the model for what election integrity, election accessibility should look like throughout the entire country. >> reporter: we pressed raffensperger more than once on whether he supported mass citizen voter challenges. he says he's waiting on guidance from a federal court that is scrutinizing the practice. and until the court rules, citizens like gail lee can keep filing unlimited voter challenges. >> that was major garrett in washington. >>> overseas, paris is getting ready to host the summer olympics next year, and if all goes according to plan, a historic monument will be ready to greet the world. elaine cobb reports. >> reporter: for the first time in nearly five years, the ou

so now you have brad raffensperger for the 11,000 plus votes that he needs.you have the michigan call and who knows what else. so the election interference case is getting more and more solid. i understand your perspective on the colorado case. i just want to throw the mix the fact that the judges who wrote the majority opinion ,those losers from the ivy league and all of that cited, neil gorsuch, right in his decision and from colorado. yes. and it was a case in the colorado where he affirmed the state's right to take someone off ballot if they are ineligible. and in section three of the 14th amendment, nowhere does it say that he has to be convicted of insurrection or rebellion. i'm just saying i could see. i think that's why i say that that's i think that's where they have a legal. i'm sure. and hugh hewitt, i know you know, i'm not a lawyer. i never said i was a lawyer on tv when you were having a problem with what i'm saying. i'm just stating facts about how they defended their position. and they also engaged with the fact that the dissenting justices sa

a couple of the examples and the notorious example with the secretary of state in georgia brad r raffenspergersking him to find the votes. and if the secretary of state doesn't have the audio, i am sure he is going to want it. so we will see how plays out. >> that is clear that is something that prosecution would want to look at. thank you so much, alayna treene, for your reporting. >> joining us now with more on this is jeanne rossi. good to see you and you have written about and know about what tapes mean and can mean in the past for donald trump, and do you think that trump has reason to be worried about this being on tape? >> he has a lot of reason to be worried. vi my holiday tie, and happy holidays, because this is a christmas decoration for jack smith, it is. the reason is when you are calling the witnesses that relay the context of a call, and it would monica palmer and william hartman who has passed away, you can challenge the recollection of those witnesses, but when you have a tape, and i wrote about this in july of 2018, regarding michael cohen's recording of a conversation regardi

spoke to the secretary of state there, asked brad raffensperger to find the precise number of votes he would need to flip, to put georgia in his column. that's what is striking here. it is trump himself, with the power of the presidency behind him, potentially calling from the resolute desk, in the oval office, trying to lean on state officials to official fraud. >> right, behind the scenes. don't forget, he literally called arizona governor doug ducey as he was signing arizona's certification, but he turned over his phone and didn't take the call. he also called rusty bauer. you're talking about the wayne county board of canvassers. these are public servers. they're nominated by their local political parties, then the county clerk says, "you'll be the one to certify the results." under law, it is their obligation to do so. those two republicans attempted to go back and rescind their certiication of wayne county's results. this is an overwhelmingly democratic county that was responsible, ultimately, for giving joe biden the win. after donald trump's phone call, along with rnc chairwoma

it is republican election officials like gabe sterling and the secretary of state brad raveffen raffensperger, trump administration department of justice officials looked into it. they didn't do anything wrong at all. period. ken, i want to play what giuliani -- just one thing he said about moss and freeman back in 2020 before the georgia state house. and then i want to butt that up against something he said this week. let's roll that tape. >> all right. >> after they say there's no fraud, look at that woman. look at her taking those ballots out. look at them scurrying around with the ballots. nobody in the room. hiding around. they look like they're -- they look like they're passing out dope. not just ballots. >> but everything i said about them is true. >> do you regret what you did to ruby -- >> of course i don't regret it. i told the truth. they were engaged in changing votes. >> there's no proof of that. >> you're damn right there is. stay tuned. >> okay. to say nothing of just the blatant racism of saying that they were looking like they were passing around dope, which is just insane, t

you go on to rusty bowers and al schmidt, brad raffensperger, so many people were in this category. lot. to answer your question as a former prosecutor, it is candy when a defendant takes the stand typically. it is very generally good for the prosecutor to have a chance to directly question the defendant in any case. this is a civil case. but i have a hard time understanding what giuliani could say that would benefit his defense. particularly when he's gone out on the steps of the courthouse and essentially doubled down on this baseless allegation that ruby freeman and shaye moss were somehow engaged in election fraud even when the judge found it was baseless and defamatory. so i don't know. i think a lot of lawyers spend a lot of time trying to analyze decisions like this when there's no explanation. >> tim, ryan in studio, what a treat. thank you so much. >>> up next, the supreme court taking on another case with huge implications, deciding whether or not the abortion pill will remain widely available to women across this country potentially its biggest case since dobbs. that stor