brandon archuleta, kevin stern, an air force veteran who has written on this topic who is skeptical on this item, and susan, she and her family have relied on food stamps. welcome to all of you. so debra, is the middle class way of life that people associate the military provided for decades on its way out? >> i don't knowists on its way out, but esee a -- we see a differential between those who join as service members and those who join as officers. your base salary, e-1 is about $20,000. and you see an officer coming in at about $40,000. so when you talk about these issues such as poverty and food stamps there is this pay differential that you see. you see somebody who is making $20,000 and has 2.pief children, that doesn't -- 2.5 children that doesn't go very far. so you can see there's some struggles there. >> indeed. susan, the numbers that we referenced getting into the show are incomplete as best because that's all that's available. but they certainly indicate that more military families could be hovering around the poverty line. is there an untold story here in your opinion? >>