breese in the position of character.t, and then the film says, have a think about this. if you came out into the world after an experience like this, there's a whole other journey to go on before -- charlie: what is that journey? lenny: i think what ma has to helps jack escape, and in the second half, he helps her to escape in a deeper way. what she learns is she can't go back to what she was. she has to sort of except that she has had this life-changing and traumatizing experience, and still decide that it's worth going on, and primarily in this world, that has to do with how much her child loves her and how much she loves her child. that's why the ending of the film is very emotional for an audience. tremendously hopeful note after the journey they've gone on, and you feel -- i think it earns it, as well. it is not just saying, love is all that matters, and life goes on. it really shows you how i person has to fight for that and can reach that point. charlie: can we ask the question, where is joy at the end of the film