brenden clark is concerned. he runs capital clark management. rates could stay longer than most people are expecting and brendan, i'm not sure i buy the bubble argument. the dot-com bubble of the '90s was market-oriented. the real estate mania of a few years ago was market-oriented but this time it's artificial. the fed keeping rates as low as they are, how can we be worried and why would you be worried about that? >> good afternoon, bill. you're right. these are differences because these are manufactured by the feds. there is one thing in common. individual investors did not think that they could lose money in the '90s and real estate in 2005 and the large majority feels the same about bonds in 2012. >> so there you have it. it's the false expectation that this is a safe place to be. and brenden, you see rates down lower than most people think. what's your expectation? >> we think over the long run rates will move higher. we don't think you can continue to borrow and not engs pekt the market to push rates higher. we hope that the fed pulls rate