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if you go inside that conversation where people like brett weinstein and heather stein, kicked out of not by any stretch right wing. they went and protested but they are willing to have a conversation about why is this -- why does the gender gap and stem persist? why is it most dramatic in countries like finland and norway? they're willing to talk about things like biological di difference, things that i wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole. i think that's worth paying attention to. as i say in the article and i'd love to talk more with you about it. i love talking to you and i don't think you're trying to shut down the conversation at all. i think that there is a genuine good faut disagreement about identity politics, the way i'm dejibing it, the way you're describing it and i think there's a tendency increasingly not to approach the ideas but to approach the identity of the person expressing them and i think that's really troubling and that's something i want to push against personally. >> and it's not just -- it doesn't just pertain to race. i mean, eddie, look for instance joy reid