and ultimately i ended up in brevard correctional institution. >> larry: both juvenile institutions? >> well, brevard was a youthful offenders camp, or actual prison, for people 25 years old and younger. >> larry: do you often think back to that day? >> no, not so much anymore. i've come -- i've made peace with that. actually, back in 2000 -- well, a little before 2005, actually, i could say being in the program became monotonous over time and i did something really dumb. i tried to escape from the facility. climbed up in the roof and ended up in a classroom. that -- from there i went to county to await those charges. and while in there, i received a letter from kathy. and she -- she just offered support and love. i had received another letter from my family members that was saying they were through with me. and seeing the contrast just kind of opened my eyes to a lot of things. kathy had already been in touch with jayne weintraub. and -- >> larry: who will be on with us later. >> right. >> larry: the lawyer. why did you go visit -- you covered this case. >> i did. >> larry: you wrot