dreeben: justice breyer -- justice breyer: but you understand that -- mr. dreeben: i don't i don't go -- justice breyer: it's the other side of the equation. mr. dreeben: i understand, justice breyer. but what i would think it would be helpful for the court if i could lay out the multiple elements that are at issue here because "official act" does not have to do all the work. you do have to have somebody engaged in their official capacity. you then have to have something that they do within their range of official duties, which going to lunch is not going to be. third, you need a quid pro quo, which means that the government is going to have to show that the person allowed themselves to be influenced in their conduct by the thing of value that they received, which is to say that somebody is basically saying, i'm going to make a referral over to another agency for you only if you buy me lunch. that is not honorable behavior, and there are -- justice breyer: of course, it isn't. mr. dreeben: many regulations that carve out permissible gift situations and crea

clear, justice breyer. if this court decides if this court gets to the notice-and-comment issue here, this court will have decided that they have article iii standing. and if they do, then they would then, too. justice roberts: when he announced -- the president announced daca, the predecessor provision, he said that if you broadened it -- this is a quote -- "then, essentially, i would be ignoring the law in a way that i think would be very difficult to defend legally." what was he talking about? general verrilli: so i think there's two possible things. one is what daca does is what dapa does, which is provide tolerated presence and essentially the ability to work. if he had said, i'm actually going to give these people lawful permanent resident status or legal status, that would be going further. justice roberts: or say or say they were lawfully present. general verrilli: and, well, but as i said, you know, i really think that -- and then and then second, the other thing is, you know, maybe he thought he c

i think justice breyer's question was directed at them. i do think there are different issues that arise with respect to state officials, but the mens rea requirements that i've been talking about are going to be fully applicable. >> this doesn't answer justice breyer's basic question and ours. you're going to tell the senators the officials with -- don't worry, the jury has could be convicted beyond a reasonable doubt and that's tough. that was your answer. that was your answer. >> justice kennedy, i do think that the requirements of the criminal law in proving something beyond a reasonable doubt are a substantial -- >> what is it they're going to prove? of course, this is a state case. not a federal case. state officials, federal law, but a state official. i don't know. only peripherally involved in political campaigns. but my peripheral -- convinces me that their candidate will go out and he'll have lunch with hundreds of people. hundreds. everybody who wants to give him lunch, great. and he wants to meet as many people as possible. he

and thomas had scalia on one i'd is and breyer on the other. -- on one side and breyer on the other. and observers of the court have noted that frequently thomas will lean over and say something to breyer, and suddenly breyer pops off with a question. and so in one interview he gave he said all of those questions breyer asks i guess i'm somewhat responsible for. what's also interesting is giants on the court like oliver wendell holmes almost never asked questions. it's a very different era today. and thomas, you know, if you'd add one more voice to the cacophony, the attorneys would have almost no time to talk. i don't know that i'd want nine thomass in terms of how often they join the discussion, but a few more surely would allow alternatives an opportunity to better express themselves. >> host: professor rossum, did justice thomas participate in -- or cooperate with your book? >> guest: no, he didn't. i wrote him and i asked if i could interview him to clarify a few matters. i pointed out all of the common connections and people that we had known, but he declined. so total arm's le

justice breyer: okay. general verrilli: in in the short time i have remaining, i'd like to finish with one point, if i could. i think, ultimately, the question before you is whether the right here is going to retain real substance, and whether the balance whether the balance struck in casey still holds. if that right still does retain real substance, then this law cannot stand. the burdens it imposes, the obstacles, are far beyond anything that this court has countenanced. and the justification for it is far weaker than anything that this court has countenanced. it is an undue burden. it is the definition of an undue burden. and, mr. chief justice, you in response to your question, undue means excessive or unwarranted. could be excessive or unwarranted as compared to the the obstacle it imposes, certainly. but also, as compared to its need. chief justice roberts: i would have thought casey and gonzales also said substantial obstacle. and i would have thought that's something you could look at in an objecti

suddenly breyer pops off with a question. in one interview he gave he sent all those questions and i guess i'm somewhat responsible. what's also interesting his giants on the court like all of her homes almost never asked question. to very different era today. if you add one more voice, the attorneys would have almost no time to talk. i don't know that i'd want nine thomases in terms of how often they joined the discussion, but a few more would surely allow an opportunity for attorneys to better express themselves. >> did justice thomas participate or cooperate with your book? >> no he didn't. i wrote him and asked if i could interview him to clarify a few matters. i pointed out all of the common connections in people that we had known but he declined. so it's a total arm's-length objectivity. he is well-liked. he is especially well-liked by his clerks. by his law clerks. when interviewed at harvard law school, she asked him what he liked least about his job as a justice in the court and he said lack of anonymity. when asked

breyers has fresh cream, sugar and milk. breyers. the good vanilla. our milk and cream come from cows not treated with artificial growth hormones. this is so good! >>mark:. >>darya: is a thousand feet above the bomb outside a u.s. bank tower cost only $8. >>reporter: some areas labeled creek we see we have more details coming up bed on standing by with the traffic. >>robin winston: 731 happening and for is not looking for san francisco man. >>darya: he is connected to a kidnapping of 13 your girl. >>mark: the state police said 2005 chrysler town country band fell to stop the protracts. >>mark: police said the robbers 1 to 2 gunman took one of their persons and they jump into or red car and sped off the start of the cards since the boulevard and try to trick people were arrested at the scene but no one was injured. >>darya: we have video of the fire broke out when hone was almost destroyed two others was suggested that matched the fibers but abbasid read that was not properly put out the fire started behind when hone their trail this is this is partly

what he was getting. >> he did and he got a very fact-laden, straightforward opinion from justice breyer ifill: marcia coyle, thank you and thank you for the term. it's been exciting. >> it's been an unusual term. thanks, gwen, my pleasure. expwrfntl >> ifill: we are now joined by advocates on both sides of the court's abortion decision. nancy northup is president of the center for reproductive rights, which helped bring the challenge against the texas law to the courts. and favoring the texas law, steven aden. he's senior counsel for alliance defending freedom. big victory today, we'll start with you. tell us what the effect is of this ruling in a small sense, what happens in texas and in a broader sense what happens around the country? >> this was a tremendous victory today. it was just a clear out win. what that means for texas is that the clinics that are currently open in texas can stay open, they were threatened to be closed by this underhanded law, and also that other clinics would be able to reopen. you know, one of the things that happened with h.b.2 was that it devastated abort

justices breyer, ruth bader ginsburg, sotomayor and justice kennedy wrote in favor of texas clinics and chief justice roberts, and justices thomas and alito dissented. joining me is nbc justice correspondent pete williams. this is unusual. it shows maybe an eight member court might be an effective instrument of justice here. >> couple things to think about. justice scalia had been on this court it would have been 5-4, probably the same outcome. secondly, of all those justices, the only one who spoke up and said there was nothing wrong with the law was justice thomas. but it is a pretty strong smack-down of the texas law. basically the court says it raises obstacles to women's access to abortion without any medical benefit, so therefore it's an undue burden. this decision doesn't by itself undercut the other laws but can be used in other states to challenge them. >> does this reaffirm casey and webster and the cases subsequent to roe v wade, bottom line, a

breyers has fresh cream, sugar and milk. breyers. the good vanilla.our milk and cream come from cows not treated with artificial growth hormones. this is so good! >>> good morning, everyone. jessica boyington watching your first alert traffic. right now we are in the clear on 26th street on ramp to the schuylkill expressway headed westbound. that accident scene we were watching earlier has completely cleared out of the way. you'll be fine heading from the schuylkill to 26th street. we are still in the green here. we have an eight-minute drive time. speeds into the 60s. westbound, eastbound on 422 still looking great. we do have that construction over the vine street expressway. through center city westbound and eastbound on the vine, we are closed between broad street and the schuylkill. that will be still an active scene with construction crews on site for another 20, 25 minutes or so. we are still closed. take vine street local as your alternate. more updates when i'm back in the next ten minutes. >>> now your nbc 10 first alert neighborhood weather

justices kagan and breyer and thomas will bury their lunches. justice kennedy will bring fruit -- food from home. sometimes i think i should eat dinner with him. becausejustice kennedy both their spouses are wonderful cooks. some justices like justice stevens, a cheese sandwich on white red with the crust cut off -- bread with the crust cut off virtually every day i sat with him for a year. [laughter] i understand this and read can tell me this, i do not know his wife well, she was a wonderful cook. >> she was a dietitian so she was very healthy. there was a time when he was on a diet and he had grapefruit cut in half and a both halves. >> that was before my time. i would like to get back to martin ginsburg for a little bit. you were talking about the late thatcentury and the role supreme court wives were expect it to play. your husband played in an orton role internally -- extremely in thent role internally court. lunch sessions are held four times a year and they are like potlucks? two or three of the spouses take the initiative to organize th

justice breyer. when directly asked at oral argument whether texas knew of a single treatment, texas admitted there was no evidence of such a case. the majority found as admitting privileges of the law was enforced the number of facilities proviing abortions dropped in half from 40 to 20 and number of facilities would drop to seven or eight if the surgical center took place. that was an undue burden in violation of planned parent v kasie that upheld the seminal abortion rights case roe v. wade. it has implications for a dozen other states. joining me the president of the center for reproductive rights has represented the plaintiffs in this case. this strikes me as a big victory for abortion rights in this country. talk about the scope of this. what does this decision mean today. >> well, this was a complete and total win today. we are just thrilled. the supreme court could not have been clearer that states can't do what texas had done, which is to use sneaky means to pass pretextual health laws desig

justice breyer: if if i can ask a question. general verrilli: oh, i'm sorry. justice breyer: no. i'm glad you said that. and and i this question will sound very nitpicky and detailed and compared to what you were -- what you are talking about. and i agree. i notice that the briefs in this case are like the briefs in grutter. and to me, that does suggest that people in the universities and elsewhere are worried that we will, to use your colleague's expression, kill affirmative action through a death by a thousand cuts. we promised in fisher i that we wouldn't. that opinion by seven people reflected no one's views perfectly. but that's what it says, not fatal in fact. okay. that's what i'm focusing on. it seems to me there are two parts to that, whether we have to send it back for another hearing or not. part one you've dealt with. is there a need? a matter which fisher i says we will give some but not complete deference to the university, and as you say, we have you went through that. there is a second part which i want you to address. the second part in fisher, we said, there is

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the 5-3 decision written by justice stephen breyer considered two parts of the texas law requirement clinics meet the same standard as ambulatory surgical centers and another requiring doctors that perform abortion have hospital admitting privileges, that abortion clinics spread out across the clinic meet the same standards as full-fledged hospit hospitals. at the crux of the case was the willingness to cut through claims to such regulations for women themselves, cases that had been taken at face value by lower courts. justice briareyer. when directly asked at oral argument whether texas knew of a single treatment, texas admitted there was no evidence of such a case. the majority found as admitting privileges of the law was enforced the number of facilities providing abortions dropped in half from 40 to 20 and number of facilities would drop to seven or eight if the surgical center took place. that was an undue burden in violation of planned parent v kasie that upheld the seminal abortion rights case roe v. wade. it has implications for a dozen other states. joining me the president

justice breyer is asking you -- you say, yes, race, can be a factor. it was a factor in bakke. it was a factor in grutter. so far you're saying now it can be a factor only if what? we're not talking about so-called neutral factors. we're talking about race. >> i mean, the first question is, you know, why are you using it? the why. therefore, it can be a factor. you have to clarify the objective. you have to show the necessity. you have to show if you, as they do, live with and accept over time a very small increment that you can't get it done any other way because race is not the baseline. it's odious classification. that's where we differ. >> if i understand what you're saying, the bakke approach, comparing two individuals and where they're tied giving a benefit to one for race, that's okay. regardless if there are any other means of achieving the racial balance you're looking for, right? >> well, justice powell indicated in bakke that that approach could be used where it's part of a greater function -- >> understand, understand. >> and the court has apparently accepted. we're

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justice anthony kennedy joined stephen breyer and all three women justices, striking down the restrictionss an undue burden on access to abortion. the lead plaintiff in the case celebrated the ruling outside the court. >> from day one, whole women's health rejected the insulting premise of house bill 2. we took on the bully politicians and we have struggled against anti-choice regressive politics and our opposition's efforts to shut us down and we won. today, we make history and tomorrow, we get back to work, so that everyone who seeks abortion services can get the health care she deserves with dignity and respect. amy: the texas legislature passed the sweeping anti-choice law in 2013 despite a filibuster and an 11-hour standby state senator wendy davis. the supreme court ruling strikes down the costly standards of hospital style surgery centers and mandating doctors obtain admitting privileges at a nearby hospital. already about more than half of texas' 40 abortion clinics have closed. if the law had gone into effect, 10would have left texas with clinics clustered in the four metropolitan

majority, was in charge of signing the opinion, didn't keep it for himself but gave it to justice breyer. but also, pam, that he didn't write separately. what that suggests is that he wanted the court to send one message, to speak in one voice not just to lower courts like the federal appeals court in new orleans in this case but state legislatures about not pushing so hard to scale back access to abortions, to actually reinvigorate the casey test in a manner that will make it harder for these laws to survive going forward. >> but it's interesting, he joined the liberal justices on this, on affirmative action, on gay marriage, it's raised questions about whether justice kennedy is moving more to the left. thank you very much, steve, appreciate your analysis there. >> thank you. >>> and the supreme court's decision culminates a long fight against the texas abortion law. when it came before lawmakers three years ago, one state senator gained national attention for filibustering against it for more than 11 hours. >> the true intention of these bills is to attack a basic human right, provide

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