that's a big change. >> justice breyer: a lot of pressure to change that back. >> justice breyer: i ends? oh, you're not going to like this. >> stephen: what? >> justice breyer: my answer is i don't know. and i don't come and there are reasons. and no one knows. you're pointed to the supreme court tomorrow, it will take you -- it will take you five years, three years, some years before you get used to it. i was told by a president the applause dies away very fast and you're left with the job. and you better do that job well and like it. and that's the privilege of the court, that you have a job -- like a doctor. you don't stop paying attention when you just have an unusual case. you pay more attention. you pay attention to every case. you give what you have, you do your best. that's the privilege of a job as you get older and you try to do it. you try to live up to it. and that's why i say the new judges have time. they can see what might work and what might not. in the old judges have had that anyway. >> stephen: well. you would know. [laughter] i'm not going to fight you. speaking of

as our lawyer at the table, what were your takeaways from justice breyer? >> first, it did not surprise me at all that he would not speak about anything about the supreme court. that say known tradition at the u.s. supreme court. but with respect to his book, which is about the reading of the constitution and the idea of the conservatives that you look at the text and somehow it magically tells you the answers about what the founders intended and the book is there to lay that bare, and it's not just justices like breyer that talks about how not wise it is and how nonsensical it is because there are conflicts within the rights of the constitution. and other republicans have said the same thing, and anthony kennedy, david suitor. i wish that they would speak, too, about the misguided way that the conservatives are reading the constitution in the name of originalism. >> stephen, dobbs is at the center of the argument that he makes and there are real world consequences. >> there is a contextualism and there is an argument to be made for contextualism and if the

former supreme court justice stephen breyer speaks out about the decision to overturn roe v. wade. >> did you think that a compromise was possible before the week around 15 weeks? >> i usually hope for compromise. >> and his decision to step down from the court. >> if it wasn't for you to decide to retire. >> joining me for insight and analysis are, nbc news chief political analyst chuck todd. kimberly atkins stohr, senior opinion writer for the boston globe and stephen hayes, editor of the dispatch. welcome to sunday. it's meet the press". >> from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with kristen welker. >>> good sunday morning. former president donald trump's effort to overturn the 2020 election is putting an unprecedented stress test on american institutions ahead of the 2024 election. with a supreme court already deciding trump can remain on the ballot in colorado, now weighing whether he has total immunity and prosecution for his election subversion efforts, this week i spoke exclusively with former supreme cour

justice breyer, thank you so much for joining us on bbc news.been writing and talking about the current courts approach to the law. some textualism, adhering to the plain text of the constitution and the statutes versus a more practical approach, which you favor. are you worried that the supreme court is headed in the wrong direction? >> yes and no. the average person is not a leader. there are 320 million people and 319 million are not lawyers. they probably would see opinions they don't like. some see once they like and once they don't like and they think it is all politics. i want to show them what i do. here are some cases, i will give you examples. i will explain to you why i reached this conclusion and i will explain to you why others reached a different conclusion and what is worrying me is in the law schools and the young lawyers, they come along. from my point of view, they think this thing called textualism or originalism is going to work perfectly. they think all you have to do is look at the text, read it. you will have a clear and s

fill us in. >> yes, so entering, stephen breyer has a new book out.an interview he was very explicit in criticizing the conservative supreme court majority in taking on the concept of originalism, deciding cases based on what justices believe the text meant at the time it was written. that's a philosophy embraced by many of the court's conservatives. breyer says it leaves no room for judges to consider the practical consequences of the constitutional rules they're writing. he says it doesn't take into account our values as a society evolve over time as we learn from the mistakes of our past. breyer criticized the dobbs decision saying, quote, are they really going to allow women to die on the table because they won't allow an abortion which could save her life? it's one of the many questions raised by what he view as a very flawed decision. >> strong words from a former supreme court justice. thank you very much, ken dilanian. >>> also today, the supreme court's temporary block on a texas immigration law expires at 5:00 p.m. eastern. then what? >>> pl

justice stephen breyer, author of "reading the constitution." thank you so much for joining us.enjoyed our discussion. >> thank you. thank you. william: and that's the "newshour" for tonight. i'm william brangham. thank you so much for joining us. good night. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by -- >> on an american cruise line's journey, along the columbia and snake rivers, travelers retrace their route forged by lewis and clark more than 200 years ago. american cruise lines fleet of modern riverboats travel through american landscapes to historic landmarks. where you can experience local customs and cuisine. american cruise lines, proud sponsor of pbs newshour. >> committed to advancing restorative justice and meaningful work through investments in transformative leaders and ideas. supported by the john d. and catherine t. macarthur foundation, committed to building a more just and peaceful world. more information at macfound.org. and with the ongoing support of these institutions. this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting

justice breyer, thank you forjoining us on bbc news.ght to an abortion has on the country? it would have a lot of different impacts, and we wrote an awful lot of words where we said, for example, you think when you overturn this that you are overturning the whole problem of abortions over to legislators? and you will never have to hear in this court another case involving abortion? i think there are two coming along quickly, one just started, and we said in dissent, that is not what will happen, in dissent, you will get more cases than ever and it will create a mess, i think that is a fair way to put what we were talking about. i want to ask your perception about the court, it's something you said you were concerned about. according to a poll from the marquette law school released in february, 40% of adults approve of the supreme court actions, 60% disapprove, do you think that matters? yes, but, you know i say but, to be a good question, ask thejudge why? you said why, i said why, and here is why i think... suppose you had an acquainta

mr breyer has now published a book reflecting on his career.f the most pressing questions before the court — as well a lack of public trust in the us's highest legal authority. justice breyer thank you forjoining us on bbc news, what impact do you be overturning of the constitutional right to an abortion has had on a country? it right to an abortion has had on a count ? ., ., ., ., , ., country? it would have a lots of different impacts, _ country? it would have a lots of different impacts, and - country? it would have a lots of different impacts, and we - country? it would have a lots of| different impacts, and we wrote an awful lot of words where we said for example, you think that when you overturn this that you are overturning the whole problem of our portions over to legislators and you will never have to hear in this court another case involving abortion? i think there to coming along quickly, onejust started, and we said in this sense, that is not what will happen, you will get more cases than ever and it will create a mess, i think that

this is a whole new clarion voice for justice breyer.e's made before. he's talked a lot about how the court can squander its reputation. he's talked a lot about the need to value precedent and starri zeisis. but what i think you're hearing here is a really pointed critique from someone who's not just worried about originalism and the fact that it's kind of bogus on its own terms. that's the bulk of the book. but i think what he's also worried about is a court that is really sinking in national approval and doesn't seem to care. >> so alexi, in his book he writes in an interview about -- with the "new york times," he focuses heavily on the dobbs decision. quote, justice breyer wrote that the dobbs decision was stunningly naive and saying it was returning to the question of abortion to the political process. the dobbs majority's hope that legislatures and not courts will decide the abortion question will not be realized, he wrote. "the new york times" adding, there are too many questions, he said. are they really going to allow women to di

plus my interview with retired us supreme court justice stephen breyer. i'll get his thoughts on concerns over the court's future and the public's declined hi, one trust. in the highest court >> if you work in spaceflight, this is the worst possible thing i can ever help my dad died doing what he loved. >> space shuttle columbia, the final flight from your sunday, april 7 at night? hi. and on cnn. >> it's don for news about the new sling tv has the same news programming you love starting at $40 a month. it's the same news programming you love starting at $40 a month. that's what i just said, right? it's this less starting at $40 a month >> i have a question does anyone here >> now streaming holmby on disney plus >> nobody's born with grid roses release it's something you build over time. >> 21 for 88 years, morgan stanley has offered clients determination it forward thinking to create the future only you can see you back in the winter i am tony hawk and like many of you, i take a statin to reduce >> cholesterol, but statins can also deplete cookie ten lev

reading this important book and justice breyer, thank you. thank you so much for joining us. thanks and thanks for all your good work. appreciated over these many years. thank you very much. >> and up next, officials in baltimore, including the governor, are about to give an update on the bridge collapse. we're going to bring that to you live as soon as it begins momentarily. plus, democrats plan to beat donald trump in november, we're going to tell you how former presidents obama and clinton are now teaming up with the biden campaign is two being a young man, be cowboy or against >> and against is alice staff >> i got back to my roots we've come from a long lab with cowboys. my grandfather, my great my aunt be rode horses when i see all of us i hit on those wrench i not all caitlin clarks are the same. caitlin clark. city planner. just like not all internet providers are the same. don't settle. you want fast. get fast. you want reliable. get reliable. you want powerful. get powerful. get real deal speed, reliability and power with xfinity. she shoots from here? that's kinda

instead, breyer advocates considering the purposes, consequences, and values of the law.t breyer rejects accusations the court is political. >> the political people desperately want to say that the judges are deciding on political bases. i don't think that's true. i think -- >> people do say that now. >> i know that. >> that is a narrative about this supreme court. you don't believe it? >> no. >> reporter: disagreement is civil, especially in private when just the nine justices meet to discuss cases. >> nobody speaks twice until everybody has spoken once. >> why is that important? >> it's important because then everyone feels they participated. everyone feels that the others have a chance to listen. >> listen. >> in 28 years, i have never heard a voice raised in anger. i don't think ever. it's polite. >> ever? >> i can't think of ever. >> not even bushes versus gore >> no. i think they were wrong. >> but you didn't shout it. >> no. >> how is it now? >> i think it's similar. >> still? >> i think it's not perfect. nothing's perfect. >> reporter: though he no longer walks th

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justice breyer, who's written over ten books already titled his newesreading theconstitutioe pragmatismnot textualism. and speaking of the supreme court college professor christine blasey ford recalls her decision to testify before congress during the 2018 nomination hearings forok is cay back, a memoir. and also just out harvard prof gates latest book is about the effort by african-american writers from frederick douglass to james baldwin to write and define the black experience. its titled the black box writing the race. and one more new book that's out, we want to retired harvardw professor alan dershowitz. his latest is called war on woke. mccarthyism is more dangerous than the old. and this is about books, a programing podcast produced by c-span's book tv. his episode, we're looking at some of the new books that are coming out this spring. here are some by journalists. in aprilicagoinvestigative repoy royal pratt is releasing his book on the windy city and its former how chicago mayor lori lightfoot led and lost a city in crisis. and in may,on white house communications director an

justice breyer, who's written over ten books already titled his newest reading the constitution why i chose pragmatism, not textualism. and speaking of the st college professor christine blasey ford recalls her decision to testify before congress during the 2018 justice brett kavanaugh. her new book is called one way back, a memoir. and also just out harvard professor henry louis gates latest book is about the effort by african-american writers from frederick douglass to james baldwin to write andefine the black experience. its titled the black box writing the race. and one more new bt, tell you about, lawyer and retired harvard law professor alan dershowitz. his latest is called war on woke. why the new mccarthyism is more dangerous than the old. and this is about books, a programing podcast produced by c-sp's book tv. in this episode, we're looking at some of the new books that are coming out this spring. here are some byagobunee wind gr may georg room xamineesse waters, his troubling tales from the liberal fringe. and we should note that there's a new book coming out about a journa

and now stephen breyer joins us now on morning joe. good to have you, sir. >> justice breyer.hy this book is so important at this moment in u.s. history. >> it's important because many americans are discussing the court, some approve it, many do not approve what it has been doing recently then they have reasons as to why they think it's doing what they don't like. one of them is they think it's politics. and i don't think it is. i think it plays a minor role in politics, at least politics as ordinarilily understood. others think they like to do it this way or that way. that is not a good explanation. in 40 years on the bench which i had, 28 on the supreme court, i have gotten more or less used to the basic job, take words in a statute or the constitution, words typically that don't explain themselves and decide how they apply in the case or what they mean. now, i think the thing that has changed over the last decade, the last few years, is a method of deciding that has become very popular. and that is called text few alism. all you do is read the words. read the words and do w

former justice breyer spoke to kristen welker about the unfortunate leak of the ruling and saying it was unfortunate. he also weighed in on the future of dobbs. >> can you see a world of possibility in which dobbs is overturned one day in another 50 years, say? >> i don't know. >> it's possible? >> oh, it's possible, but who knows? >> breyer's comments come as the high court is set to hear arguments tuesday on whether to limit access to the abortion pill. >>> the white house wants to repeal part of the big spending package that just passed. the spending bill included a provision that effectively bans pride flags from flying over u.s. embassies. the measure bans most flags other than the american flag. a white house spokesperson says the president finds this to be an inappropriate abuse to the process and that the administration will work with members of congress to find a way to repeal it. >>> and russia four men have been charged over a mass shooting at a concert hall in moscow on friday. in their court appearances all four showed signs of ill treatment according to the associated p

former justice stephen breyer spoke to kristen welker on "meet the press" about the infamous leak of the ruling, saying it was unfortunate, and he would be amazed that any judge was behind it. and he also weighed in on the future of dobbs. >> can you see a world of possibility in which dobbs is overturned one day in another 50 years, say? >> don't know. >> it's possible? >> oh, it's possible. but who knows. >> breyer's comments come as the high court is set to hear arguments tuesday on whether to limit access to the abortion pill. >>> in russia, four men have been charged over a mass shooting at a concert hall in moscow friday. in their court appearance, all four showed signs of ill-treatment, according to the associated press. one of them appeared barely to be conscious. two of the other suspects admitted their guilt, according to the court itself. at least 137 people are confirmed dead after the massacre. dozens are still missing. for the latest, let's go to josh lederman, who is tracking developments for us. good morning, josh. what's the latest? >> good morning, frances. the cour

judge breyer software it and said this is a slap lawsuit.ou will have to pay the costs. >> because of what is going on here, your company or nonprofit, it focuses on what you just talked about, evidence and facts. it tracks what is going on in terms of reality. do you feel-spacer you obviously have great counsel with robbie kaplan. doesn't have a chilling effect on other nonprofit organizations similar to yours trying to make sure consumers are aware of the amount of hate speech and hate content on social media platforms? >> let me be clear. the organization i rent not only look at hate speech, we look at self harm content which is vital for america parents to understand. we look at a number of different types of information that can impact human health and human well-being and prosperity. it is really important this work is done. that is how free speech works. we have our opinions based on the facts we painstakingly researched. if we made a mistake, he could have sued us for defamation. it is telling that he did not. he cannot find a mistak

kristen welker sat down for an interview with retired supreme court justice stephen breyer.was one of the three on the court who disagreed with the majority opinion. and kristen welker is joining me now. it is a pleasure, thank you for joining us. give us a sense of what you period on this. >> so great to be with you. i sat down with justice breyer in the wake of his new book where he argues for taking a pragmatic approach to the law, considering real world consequences instead of just relying on the text. he argues that that is how for example he approached the deliberations over to western to overturn roe v. wade. and i asked him about the reporting that there had been conversations that were coalescing around a compromise, that would have effectively upheld a part of roe and would have banned abortions after 15 weeks. he chooses his words carefully. take a look. did you think that compromise was possible before the leak around 15 weeks? >> i usually hope for compromise. >> so you were hopeful there could be a compromise. >> you will put words in my mouth. i'm careful what

joins us. >> justice breyer, thank you so much for being here. many americans are discussing the court, some approve it, many do not approve it and they have reasons as to why. one they think it's politics. i don't think it is. i think it plays a very minor role. others think they just like to do that way or this way. 40 years on the bench, 28 on the supreme court, i've gotten more or less used to the basic job is to take words in a statute or the constitution, and decide how they apply in the case or what they mean. now i think the thing that has changed over the last decade over the last few years is a method of deciding that is becoming very popular and that's called textualism is very attractive, just read the words and do what they say and this will be simple, clear and it will stop judges from deciding what they think is good instead of the law, all right, many believe that. i do not. there's another more traditional way of looking at those words and that is someone wrote them, what was their purpose? what are their consequences? how do the

you've got stephen breyer talking about practicing restraint as a than sitting justice. where is that same level of restraint from someone like clarence thomas? >> great point. before i get to that i need to disagree with my friend chuck. i don't think this is a move of desperation by trump at all. he's leaning into january 6. i don't think it's desperation. i think he knows that most of the country is tired of talking about january 6th. he knows that biden is going to rightly hint to him for attacking our democracy. he's trying to blunt that. he's going to lean into january 6th and lean into the violence because, let's be real, this election is going to be decided by a handful of people in a few states. he knows that. he's going to lean into this. this is not desperation. >> what did you think of clarence thomas not following suit and constraining himself the way stephen breyer did? >> i believe in a conservative court but i don't believe in an activist court. this is an activist court. clarence thomas is not just a conservative, he's an activist. there should be no pla

what do you make of breyer? >> all eyes are on barrett.as shown herself to be a little bit more flexible, more practical, more moderate than a lot of us expected her to be. she has her eyes on her legacy, and also she's realizing if the court stays true to this hard core version of originalalism where they make up a new standard and rule every time based on their interpretation of the history of 1791, the law will be in total chaos, and barrett, whatever else she is, she is not a chaos agent. she likes order, she likes rules. she likes predictability. i think justice breyer is looking to barrett and saying we can do this the normal way. we can build on precedent. the law can develop slowly and steadily. or we can shatter the law every single term and force the american people to guess what the rules will be tomorrow. you get to choose. you're in the driver's seat. i hope she's listening. >> the beauty of the constitution is a living document that grows and breathes as society does as well. mark joseph stern, i have run out of time, thank y

i did sit down with stephen breyer, who retired nearly two years ago.itical debates. in his book, he urges the justices to look beyond the words as originally written in the constitution to the real world consequences their rulings may have. one of the most notable exchanges i asked him about the decision to overturn roe v. wade and reports that prior to the leak of the draft decision, discussions were coalescing under a ban that would put roe in place. did you think a compromise was ? >> i usually hope for compromise. >> so you were hopeful there could be a compromise? >> you want to put words in my mouth. i'm careful what i say on this, because i say our interests are different. i don't want to make possible around a leak, around i have written what i thought. if you think there is news in here or in the dissent, go right ahead. but i don't want to say something in addition. >> yeah. just to be clear, though, did you think a compromise was possible? >> i always think it's possible. >> uh-huh. >> i always -- i always think it's possible. usually up unt

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drexler was talking about because we were coming out of we're of wars and modernism and building is by breyer and except for frank wright and everything was kind of cold and and. you know, these are all very precise and the culture wasn't that it was. it was heading for all kinds of chaos. so. i looked at it. i remember theem moma, the drexler show, it was very powerful. if anybody had seen it it was it was really seductive. it was you could just go there and slap it up and just do that for the rest of your life. and some of the architects started going down that rabbit hole. conference with a so michael graves and more than two were in philip and. it was at that group that time that philip put the little twirly sitting top of the at&t. it was as a result of that show and some the other architects were doing what we ended up calling postmodernism, because the show drexlerpostmodernism was very seductive. like you just you could just go in those buildings and love it. what was seductive about it? you just getm and friendly and you embrace saying and you know, it didn't. but it had nothing do t