joining me now to talk about the police response in uvalde is brian higgins. fessor of disaster management at john jay college of criminal justice, and a former swat team commander and police chief in bergen county, new jersey. thank you for joining us. brian: thank you for having me. geoff: we learned yesterday that before u.s. border agents, federal agents, entered the classroom and killed the gunman, a group of 19 law enforcement officers stood in a hallway outside the classroom and took no action. they effectively waited. the commander on the scene -- uvalde school district police chief -- decided it was no longer an active shooter situation, despite the gunman being inside tharoom, kids still being alive and calling 911, and sounds of sporadic gunfire. what is your reaction when you hear that? brian: the definition of an active shooter situation is when someone is actively engaged in shooting victims. that's what we have here. even if it wasn't an active shooter situation and we have purely a hostage and barricaded situatio there are still tactics that are

security consultant brian higgins is a lecturer at the john jay college of criminal justice. >> and retiredcounty police chief in swat team member. he says after columbine, the protocol changed waiting for tactical team is not the answer. officers will respond. have to go in immediately so long as the shootings occurred. initial reports suggest police in uvalde, texas initially followed protocol by engaging the shooter. 4 minutes after he entered robb elementary school. but then were driven back by gunfire. then an hour passed before tactical team re entered the school and took out the shooter. but we need to know is did the shooter stopped shooting number one? >> and where their victims in this in this room would not been higgins says if that was the case. >> there can be an argument made for waiting to re enter the classroom. if there are victims who were not injured still in the room with this subject. if the officers enter and they're not prepared, they don't have the the the equipment and the tools. >> to go waiting gauges subject, then they may create more injuries and more deaths and

security consultant brian higgins is a lecturer at the john jay college of criminal justice. >> and retired bergen county police chief in swat team member. he says after columbine, the protocol changed waiting for tactical team is not the answer. officers will respond. have to go in immediately so long as the shootings occurred. initial reports suggest police in uvalde, texas initially followed protocol by engaging the shooter. 4 minutes after he entered robb elementary school. but then were driven back by gunfire. then an hour passed before tactical team re entered the school and took out the shooter. but we need to know is did the shooter stopped shooting number one? >> and where their victims in this in this room would not been wounded. >> higgins says if that was the case, there can be an argument made for waiting to re enter the classroom. >> if there are victims who were not injured still in the room with this subject. if the officers enter and they're not prepared, they don't have the the the equipment and the tools to go waiting gauges subject. then they may create more injuries and

security consultant brian higgins is a lecturer at the john jay college of criminal justice. >> and aired bergen county police chief and swat team member. he says this incident should spur all agencies to re evaluate their active shooter training quite often. what you see in. >> active shooter training as the police come in and they act as if the shooter is there and and they go after the person who is acting as the shooter but i think we need to fix to expand the training to all elements such as when it goes to a barricade situation. >> police departments need to have interaction and training with the schools. >> former fbi agent rick smith says there also needs to be better coordination between law enforcement and schools. before an incident happens. >> where there's interaction and where they have a protocol and then were they where they tell the school what to do when there's a line me to make a shun set up. smith says investigators will have to determine whether it was poor training or bad decision-making that led to mistakes in texas. >> he also says going forward the way we pro

brian higgins is a lecturer at the john jay college of criminal justice and a retired bergen county police chief and swat team member. he says prior to 1999, columbine shooting standard protocol was one officers were outgunned. they waited for tactical teams to respond. but after columbine, they realized there was no time to wait one or 2 cops entering to go get the shooter especially weather actively shooting. people should be the protocol. >> reports suggest police in uvalde texas initially followed that protocol by engaging the shooter. 4 minutes after he entered robb elementary school. but then were driven back by gunfire. then an hour passed before a tactical team re entered the school and took out the shooter. hagan says that delay in re-engage ing raises several questions. but we need to know is. >> did the shooter stopped shooting number one and where their victims in this in this room who had not been wounded yet. >> higgins says if that was the case, there can be an argument made for waiting to re enter the classroom. if there are people who have not been injured yet. >> could th

house representative, brian higgins from new york not long after the shooting. >> these people were groceryre workers, by and large. they left for work thinking they would come home at the end of the day, and these ten individuals are leaving families that, you know, they'll never be re-united again with, and it's just, it's a tragedy. you don't view a super market as a dangerous place, particularly on a saturday afternoon at 2:30. and so all indications are this points to an effort to exact domestic terrorism that is racially motivated on a community, but that threat, to our community in buffalo and wes western new york is a threat to the nation. >> it is being investigated as a hate crime and racially-motivated violent extremism. the suspect was heavily armed and wore a camera to live stream the attack on twitch. now the online platform says the live video feed was removed less than two minutes after the violence began. steve moore is a retired supervisory agent with the u.s. federal bureau of investigation and joins me live from los angeles. and it's good to have your input here, especia

. >> will hear from and then congressman brian higgins because i will take questions at the end. >> as has been said by all the others, today's when the saddest the saddest days in the city of buffalo and the county's history paid all the counties resources have been made available as necessary to assist in this horrific act. as the mayor noted we are the city of good neighbors. we are not defined by that act but how we come together to support the families of those who have lost. i'll be half of the people of erie county want to offer my deepest condolences for those who have lost a loved one today. mental health counselors as well as our partners in the mental health community are already on site to assist those who may have lost a loved one or those who are a witness to this horrific crime. we will offer all resources possible whether it's the sheriff's office, the district attorney's office or other departments. to ensure this individual be prosecuted for this horrible crime of the full extent of the justice but we could heal as a community from this tremendous experience. >> let m

congressman brian higgins of new york, thank you for joining us. i'm sorry for what your district is having to go through right now. it's the worst of humanity, what we saw there. ten people losing their lives due to just vile, senseless violence. thank you so much. >> thank you, bye-bye. >>> we'll be right back with bishop darius pritkin, senior pastor at true beth-el baptist church and president of the buffalo city council. you're in the "cnn newewsroom." you know, you hear a lot about celiac, but i never thought my dna would tell me i had a higher risk for it. i mean, i'm a food critic. i literally eat for a living. this can be a game changer. do you know what the future holds? lemons. lemons. lemons. lemons. look how nice they are. the moment you become an expedia member, you can instantly start saving on your travels. so you can go and see all those, lovely, lemony, lemons. and never wonder if you got a good deal. because you did. ♪ my name is austin james. as a musician living with diabetes, fingersticks can be a real challenge. that's why i

i want to recognize county executive eric county executive, congressman brian higgins, council presidentchairwoman april, county legislator, howard johnson, i want to recognize governor kathy and thank her for her calls. the governor's staff is with us now and the governor is flying back into town and will be here sometime after 7:00 o'clock. i want to recognize attorney general letitia james who is also called and we have also received calls from the white house. again, this is a day of great sadness for all of us in the city of buffalo to provide you with more detail i want to turn things over to buffalo police commissioner. >> thank you. at approximately 2:30 p.m. today an individual who the mayor stay or did his not from this area and is from hours away drove to buffalo to the tops market. he exited his vehicle he was very heavily armed he had tactical gear, a tactical helmet on he had a camera he was live streaming what he was doing paid the individual is engaged for individuals he shot four people in the parking lot. three of those were deceased, one individual at this time is surv

security consultant brian higgins is a lecturer at the john jay college of criminal justice. >> and retired bergen county police chief in swat team member. he says after columbine, the protocol changed waiting for tactical team is not the answer. officers will respond. have to go in immediately so long as the shootings occurred. initial reports suggest police in uvalde, texas initially followed protocol by engaging the shooter. 4 minutes after he entered robb elementary school. but then were driven back by gunfire. then an hour passed before tactical team re entered the school and took out the shooter. but we need to know is did the shooter stopped shooting number one? >> and where their victims in this in this room who had not been wounded yet. >> higgins says if that was the case, there can be an argument made for waiting to re enter the classroom. >> if there are victims who were not injured still in the room with this subject. if the officers enter and they're not prepared, they don't have the the the equipment and the tools to go waiting gauges subject. then they may create more injuri

i want to recognize county executive marc pullen tires, executive congressman brian higgins, councilnt, buffalo city council president darius preach in, eric county legislature chairwoman, april baskin, eric county legislator howard johnson. i want to recognize governor kathy hochul and thank her for her calls. governor staff is with us now, and the governor is flying back into town and will be here sometime after 7:00. i want to recognize attorney general letitia james, who is also called, and we have also received calls from the white house. again, this is a day of great sadness for all of us in the city of buffalo. to provide you with more detail, i want to turn things over to buffalo police commissioner joseph roe molly. >> thank you. and approximately 2:30 today an individual who the mayor stated is not from this area and from hours away drove to buffalo went to 12 75 jefferson to the tops market. he exited his vehicle. he was very heavily armed. he had tactical gear and tactical helmet on. he had a camera livestreaming when he was doing. he engaged for individuals. he shot four

i want to recognize that congressman brian higgins is with us, the u.s.ct, truney ross is with us, ted skennedy, who was on a trip with his family, flew back to buffalo to be with us, and christopher scanlon is with us. as i mentioned, we have heard from a lot of businesses locally and in other places that want to be helpful to the families that have experienced this horrible tragedy. scott bealer and wester automotive group have pledged $300,000 for grief counseling and other services for the families of the ten members of our community that lost their lives in this mass shooting. i want to thank scott bealer and wester automotive group for that commitment. zephyr and cross country mortgage. zephyr is a new company that will be opening in the city of buffalo. they have committed $50,000 for the funeral expenses of the ten members of our community that have lost their lives. all information about how those donations can be processed and how that support can be provided to the families can be accessed through the mayor's office by calling 716-851-4841. thi

security consultant brian higgins is a lecturer at the john jay college of criminal justice. >> and retired bergen county police chief in swat team member. he says after columbine, the protocol changed waiting for tactical team is not the answer. officers will respond. have to go in immediately so long as the shootings occurred. initial reports suggest police in uvalde, texas initially followed protocol by engaging the shooter. 4 minutes after he entered robb elementary school. but then were driven back by gunfire. then an hour passed before tactical team re entered the school and took out the shooter. but we need to know is did the shooter stopped shooting number one? >> and where their victims in this in this room who had not been wounded yet. higgins says if that was the case. >> there can be an argument made for waiting to re enter the classroom. if there are victims who were not injured still in the room with this subject. if the officers enter and they're not prepared, they don't have the the the equipment and the tools. >> to go waiting gauges subject, then they may create more injur

security consultant brian higgins is a lecturer at the john jay college of criminal justice. >> and retiredgen county police chief in swat team member. he says after columbine, the protocol changed waiting for tactical team is not the answer. officers will respond. have to go in immediately so long as the shootings occurred. initial reports suggest police in uvalde, texas initially followed protocol by engaging the shooter. 4 minutes after he entered robb elementary school. but then were driven back by gunfire. then an hour passed before tactical team re entered the school and took out the shooter. but we need to know is did the shooter stopped shooting number one? >> and where their victims in this in this room who had not been wounded yet. >> higgins says if that was the case, there can be an argument made for waiting to re enter the classroom. >> if there are victims who were not injured still in the room with this subject. if the officers enter and they're not prepared, they don't have the the the equipment and the tools to go waiting gauges subject. then they may create more injuries a

brian higgins, mr. donald payne, i inform the house that these members will vote yes on s. 2938. the speaker pro tempore: for what purpose does the gentlewoman from florida seek recognition? ms. salazar: as the member designated by dr. dunn of florida, i inform the house that dr. dunn will vote yes on s. 2938. the speaker pro tempore: for what purpose does the gentlewoman from texas seek recognition? ms. escobar: as the member designated by ms. meng and mr. allred, i inform the house that these members will vote s. on -- yes on s. 2938. >> mr. speaker, as the member designated by mr. stauber of minnesota, i inform the house that mr. stauber will vote no on s. 2938. the speaker pro tempore: for what purpose does the gentlewoman from north carolina seek recognition? ms. ross: mr. speaker, as the member designated by mr. butterfield of north carolina, i inform the house that mr. butterfield will vote yes on s. 2938. the speaker pro tempore: for what purpose does the gentleman from south carolina seek recognition? mr. timmons: mr. speaker, as the member designated by mr. wilson of so

brian higgins, mr. paul tonko, i inform the house that these members will vote yes on s. 2687. >> as the member designated by mr. stewart of utah, i inform the house that mr. stewart will vote yes on s. 2687. mr. carbajal: as the member designated by mr. peter defazio, i inform the house that peter defazio will vote yes on s. 2687. the speaker pro tempore: for what purpose does the gentleman from oklahoma rise? mr. lucas: madam speaker, as the member designated by mrs. bice of oklahoma, i inform the house that mrs. bice will vote yes on s. 2687. the speaker pro tempore: for what purpose does the gentleman from california rise? mr. correa: madam speaker, as the member designated by congressman raul ruiz, i inform the house that congress member ruiz will vote yes on s. 2687. the speaker pro tempore: for what purpose does the gentleman from nebraska rise? >> as the member designated by mr. brian fitzpatrick of pennsylvania, i inform the house that mr. fitzpatrick will vote yes on 2687. the speaker pro temp

brian higgins, who represents buffalo, put out this on his twitter. horrified by the mass shooting. we are in communication with local leaders and to offer any federal support necessary. legislators giving comment as well. kathleen rice saying, praying for the victims and their families. these types of horrific shootings will not end until we take steps to act with common sense gun laws legislation. another from nancy pelosi, today another community was shattered by the horrors of gun violence. we must never stop fighting to stop bloodshed because enough is enough. a follow-up from the senate majority leader chuck schumer, i for the victims and their families. i-8 for the -- ache for the tightknit community. racism has no place in our country. i have spoken with the mayor and offered any help we can provide. we stand with the people of buffalo. that is chuck schumer. more comments will be throughout the course of the hour. the story from the associated press goes on to say a law enforcement official told ap investigators were looking into whether he posted a manifesto online. they w

brian higgins, who represents buffalo, put out this on his twitter. horrified by the mass shooting.e are in communication with local leaders and to offer any federal support necessary. legislators giving comment as well. kathleen rice saying, praying for the victims and their families. these types of horrific shootings will not end until we take steps to act with common sense gun laws legislation. another from nancy pelosi, today another community was shattered by the horrors of gun violence. we must never stop fighting to stop bloodshed because enough is enough. a follow-up from the senate majority leader chuck schumer, i for the victims and their families. i-8 for the -- ache for the tightknit community. racism has no place in our country. i have spoken with the mayor and offered any help we can provide. we stand with the people of buffalo. that is chuck schumer. more comments will be throughout the course of the hour. the story from the associated press goes on to say a law enforcement official told ap investigators were looking into whether he posted a manifesto online. they wer