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joining me now, senior editor for "the atlantic" ron bronstein and national political reporter for thew york times" lisa lara. welcome to you both. how about trump saying in 2016 he would absolutely release his tax returns and later saying after an you had a sit complete to now the white house acting chief of staff, ron, saying dems will never see his tax returns. >> because that was the real answer all along. you know, i live in l.a., and there's a saying in hollywood, two ways to say no. no and yes, and, you know, in fact, as long as -- as long as you'reno not prodenver nuggets the tax returns in effect you're saying no, and it is worth noting this is not something that the administration can enforce. if he believes the democrats will never obtain this, ultimately he needs five members of the supreme court to agree with that. >> right. >> and it's worth noting that the language in the law and the precedent of the law is very clear. the law -- the authority is based on the 1924 revenue act which was passed by a republican congress after the republican president refused to provide them