but bronwyn lace, one of the centre's organisers, says, "in order to qualify for grants and public fundingmpact of their art "and incorporate a community—based outreach "programme of some kind." yes, so that's not us. that's not what we do. that's what you do if you're looking for public funding, you have to show this drawing will reduce mother—to—child transmission... she's one of the organisers of your centre. she's saying that's the way public funding works. you don't approve of that? no, that's not what we do. that's the point — you're not going to get the support unless you do that? we will have to get it in different ways, because the whole point is to say, "yes, that's one "way of working." but for all the artists involved in that, you have the chance to say, "this is the impulse i have, "this is a question i want to invoke, i can't prove "an instrumental good that is going to... "i've got a poem about the state of the nation, "and the soundtrack goes with it and chaos "of what it is to be a young black woman in "south africa at the moment..." it's putting the cart before the horse.