>> bruce wolf. >> so mr. wolf, i hear your comments, and i think that i have, certainly my view of this is that in order to find a willful violation, i think that i am going to have to find that a respond ent at a minimum did not retain a document that they were required to maintain under their policy because i am not going to... whether the policy is right or wrong is a discussion that we should have but not one that is relevant here, because in my mind at least, an employee who follows their own document retention policy cannot be found to have willfully violated the sunshine ordinance when this is about document retention. you may disagree with that, but what i am hear to ask you is if you appear to have studied this retention policy to some degree, what category of, if you don't think this is a category four document, the ballard document, what category do you think that it would fall under? >> it would not refer to the retention policy. >> i understand your view. >> i only referred to section 8 of the ad