i went to an all women's college , bryn mawr, and i was taught by intellectuals, scholastic and academicomen. so i began to see possibilities in their lives that i was able to imagine for my own. emily: you were the first harvard president without a harvard degree. you went to the university of pennsylvania after graduating from an more weather history degree, that he became history professor. drew: i was a student activist in college, very involved in politics, civil rights issues, vietnam war protests, and cared a lot about changing the world and having an impact on the world. when i graduated from college i worked in the department of housing and urban development, and i hoped in an idealistic way to move into maybe urban planning or some area that would have only a me to carry on my concerns about public service and changing the world. but i so missed intellectual life and ideas and the kind of debate that is out the heart of -- at the heart of a university, so i applied to graduate school and went back and got a phd. penn, which eventually led me to a focal to position it penn that

. -- and ino bryn mawr went on to the university of pennsylvania and became he history professor -- aistory professor. student activist and college come involved in politics, civil rights issues, vietnam war protests, and cared a lot about changing the world and having an impact on the world. when i graduated from college i worked in the department of housing and urban development, and i hoped in an idealistic way to move into may be urban planning or some area that would enable me to carry on my concerns about public service and changing the world, but i so missed intellectual life and ideas and the kind of debate that is out the heart of the university, so i applied to graduate school and went back and got a phd. that led me to a faculty position at penn that i held for 25 years. emily: you wrote six books. became as storing of the american south and begin to explore questions not all that distant from questions i ask as a young child growing up in a segregated society. my first book was about people who defended slavery, because i found that so unthinkable and could not imagine how

and the essay was for torah fall like at bryn mawr to say does adversity make us stronger? of course you are supposed to say yes. now to look at this the road to damascus moment. and it is a bit of a drama queen but basically the essence of his few backwards it is very inspired by separate and christianity with the classic religious tale of your individuals that are totally not true and that science corrupts. the first person to put up the to say this is mine it is very different. and with that whole orientation and then the father of romanticism. and then to argue from his own personal family that the feelings are more authentic than your faxing and personal authenticity with our highest in the motion tell us so much more. but then to say when everything is in perfect harmony, everybody's society has to work together and for that contrast is very strong with the fruits of the labor belong that the group is more and 14 and the individual and private property is evil and morality is determined by the group but i reject this idea to do the intellectual history. so they reject

he became an academic, taught at princeton, renoir and wesleyan -- bryn-mawr and wesleyan.esign he had to eventually from princeton. while he was thinking what to do next, he had a career on the side of his princeton activities as a writer and public lecturer. he was very popular, the greatest speaker of his time. he was a progressive. ,o the democrats looking ahead this is 1910 when they asked him to run for governor, looking they are1912, thinking, we can get him in as governor and if he does a good job, he will be a strong, clean-cut regressive -- clean-cut, progressive candidate in 1912. brian: how long was he governor of new jersey? .atricia: one term brian: how can he be called a progressive after his opinion toward african americans? patricia: he was a big free trader. at that time, the government raised most of its revenue through protective tariffs. that raise revenue and made a handful of people really rich. by modernizing the economy and getting rid of the protective tariff into switching revenue ,rom the tariff to income tax that leveled the playing field consid