they were quite humane, right, in terms of comparisons to our general image of, say, auschwitz or buchenwald. so they could wear their own clothing, they could have packages sent to them. but by any other measure, they were pretty notoriously miserable places where both italian jews and foreign jews were kept after 1938. >> one more question here. >> you partially answered part of my question in relation to somebody else, but i wanted to know how italy regarded itself as a colonial power both in relation to the french with arab north africa, and the british and the germans and the french and black africa. dr. mclean: so, pre-1936 -- well, throughout, they think of themselves as more humane. they think of themselves like the french, as sort of catholic colonizers and think of themselves as people more than -- and therefore they think of them more as people more than the germans or the british do, that they are there to civilize these populations and they're there just to help them realize the great riches of their lands, right? a.k.a., take them. but the reality is much more stark, and, in fa