of course you're right about the defense and buck mccann is right.ne, if you look at the base line, they're up 19% over the next bunch of years out the 2021 or something. 2014 they take another hit. i get that. however from that base it rises about 18 or 19%. that's pretty good. >> the other argument for getting the deal is that these discretionary cuts are written on paper. every congress can undo them. if you start changing the federal retirement program, it sticks. if you start changing aviation fees it sticks. if you change the mandatory programs like farm or spectrum rights they stick. you change the long term as well as the short term. it's worth trying to get a deal. not every deal is acceptable. the parties are very far apart on the big items. so if there's a small deal where you can get enough overlap and get each side to take some bad votes it's worth trying to get it done. >> let me go back to you on this point. i am so totally in favor of the budget caps. i know they're not perfect. i do get that. i think too much is being taken out of de