and, you know, one confederate general, general buckner, who was a--the son of a confederate general at one point said that, you know, 'well, black men can't really operate heavy machinery. we don't--we can't send them out there. we might leave, you know, unwanted racial mixtures and all this sort of thing.' but these men, you know, and this--inspiring tales, facing all sorts of, you know, just geological and engineering problems, built the road ahead of schedule and with great aplomb. c-span: who was walter furnace? or who is he--is--i guess he's still alive. >> guest: yes, he at the time was a representative in alaska. he was republican and former airman who had been--become a bank executive and, you know, was doing very well in the state house. c-span: was he career air force? >> guest: no, no, he wasn't. he got out too early to have been career air force. c-span: the reason i ask is because another career man who is a black writer, albert murray, and i know that you quote him at great lengths in here. >> guest: yes, well, he did a similar book about the south. and so i looked to