and that is -- bud krogh was talking about the liberating experience of going to jail. it's liberating to work for bradley. it's the opposite of jail. >> more about that later. when you talk about this story, what don't you know after 40 years? >> i think at this point, it's what we know that's important. and we know that this was about a president that used illegal, unconstitutional means as a basic matter of implementing policy. and that that's what makes this unique in our history. and so we have the big picture. and through these remarkable, awful tapes, we hear more and more elaborations on that theme. it enables us to learn about the few gaps in our knowledge, but basically i think we understand it. and that's what that piece in the post was about. >> but i asked him, because captain graham said when will we know everything? you said we may never know everything. >> that's right. and, you know, there were a series of events. the senate watergate committee, alex butterfield's testimony, disclosing the tapes. and, you know, you asked the question, which is a really

and that is -- bud krogh was talking about the liberating experience of going to jail. it's liberating to work for bradley. it's the opposite of jail. >> more about that later. when you talk about this story, what don't you know after 40 years?

and he never -- again, bud krogh was talking about serenity. he never really found it. you listen to those tapes and it is not only the illegality and abuse of power but the smallness of richard nixon. he didn't realize that as president he could really do big things. and -- >> some would argue that he did big things but had this character failure and this insecurity and all these other qualities that led him to do the bad things. >> i would say he did big things. and yet they were all done in this tent that he could never get himself out of. that was this tent of anger and revenge and illegality. and it defined his presidency and what -- the way he conducted the white house. you know, if you looked -- one of the reasons that this thing about deflating the notion that the cover-up is worse than the crime, these crimes were enormous. the cover-up has been -- absolutely necessary and inevitable to hide these white house horrors, as john mitchell called them. the tent was white house horrors. >> and it began early. if you look at the senate watergate record, they really du