cabinet. he should take credit for this and we got stronger economic growth. during the first bush years, first president bush, second president bush and during obama we got moreovernment spending and those have not been very good years for the economy much less just look at the evidence from europe where heavy burdensome government is associated with a fiscal crisis. >> let me agree with dan, pushing on a string that's what the fed has been doing. if you don't have an expansive fiscal policy, if your consumers are actually finding themselves in dire straits because the median wage is dropping fed monetary policy will not have much effect whatsoever. i disagree with everything else dan just said, though. but let me just underscore one point and that is we are really at the beginning of a series of showdowns and those showdowns also include that, you know, we will have for the next four, five, six months that goes all the way up to raising the debt ceiling. if we have paralysis with regard to fiscal policy and where, whatever baseline you're using larry i don't care. the fact of the matter is if government is pulling back from what it otherwise would be spendin