bush campaigns argument in the lead up to bush v. gore had elements of this idea. s no coincidence that justice kavanaugh was a lawyer for the bush campaign at the time, but at that time, many recalling for florida state legislature to award florida's electoral counts to bush even though al gore won more votes. you see this also in the 2020 elections with efforts by the trump campaign to influence states legislatures into certifying alternate slates of electors, in pennsylvania, for example, rather than the electors who had been selected by the people. if the supreme court agrees with this, it would be giving more power to republican state legislatures to go against the will of voters in their states. in swing states like pennsylvania, north carolina, wisconsin, this is a massive threat. and, ayman, what i think i want people to hear about this radical conservative supreme court, republicans worked for it and got it, this is the culmination of a decades long project in which conservative legal movement decided that packing the courts in their own way, and taking the

fiercely litigated in support of republican candidates who are instrumental on the bush side in bush v. gorert, right? recently, not stolen, about the actual facts as it comes to the election. that is your background. why is pottinger so important for this committee to hear from? >> pottinger is so important because he was there on the day during the 187 minutes that the insurrection was going on and the big missing piece from what the committee has discussed so far are former presidents trump's precise actions, conversations, lack of actions during that period of time. so pottinger is something who was in the white house, who there has already been testimony that said he did have some contact with the former president during that period and can become a key fact witness, along with sarah matthews, former deputy press secretary, who is also slated to testify. >> let me ask you this. poppy brought up the lost, not stolen, report. you speak to a lot of republicans. i wonder what -- i don't want you to break any confidences here -- but what they say to you privately as you and other republicans

i mean, the court cases, obviously bush v. gore, and some of those enormous decisions.see this transition in the court? >> well, the court's clearly entering a new era. it really started the day that sandra day o'connor retired and was replaced by samuel alito. the court has moved to the right. it goes through periodic shifts. during the time when earl warren was the chief justice, it moved one direction. it was in the middle ground when william rehnquist was the chief justice. now with these three recent appointees from president trump it's the most conservative court we've had in probably a century. they are feeling their oats. and you know, they are eager to take charge and move things in the direction that they think are best in the country. and the coming term will be a very big deal with affirmative action, with -- two really important election cases. so it's -- next term is going to be a blockbuster, too. >> well, we will be -- obviously you're part of our lives, and we'll always be here as the heart and soul, as savannah said, of nbc. but thank you, pete, for al

this is a profound misreading of, you know, of an opinion, in bush v gore, that only garnered three votes. it's a profound misreading of the word legislature. this is another one of those ideas that kind of comes up from, you know, the bowels of the kind of far, far, far reaches of the conservative legal movement. it has no actual sailence. it's just really i think a totally instrumental way to give state legislatures the power to override the judiciary. and i think that, you know, we can talk for hours and hours about what the word legislature means in the construction but the truth is it is just another one of those theories that didn't exist until it did, and now evidently it does. >> you wrote in "slate," the latest piece about the court this term, and you said that quote, those arguing that the brand-new jurisprudence emerging this week is markedly more cruel, more overtly theological, more contextous of the regulatory state are all correct. tall to me about what you meant by that. >> this term has been like nothing i have ever seen, and nothing that most court watchers have ever see

>> don't forget with the independent state legislature, that was floated in bush v. gorey took it up. it was fringe all the way back then. rehnquist brought it up. now you're looking at what this conservative court is doing with religion and it used to be that government wanted to be neutral. there were so many different kind of religions. and this conservative court is now equating that neutrality with the discrimination. so why not? now the states are coming forward and saying we want you to go even further. that's how these things start and it may seem fringe now, but we -- >> there is nothing wrinkfringet it. it will be one of the most important and powerful advisers if trump gets elected in 2024. >> if he runs for re-election. >> if trump wells in 2024 and becomes president again. and this is not -- this is not a group that is some fringe group, not fringe at all. they're at the center of the emerging conservative infrastructure around these issues. and the fact is now that republicans have this super majority on the court, they're willing to be much more creative an

was certified in the states around the country, because all legal challenges, as we know from bush v. gore, have to be completed before that day. and what was clear, it is that trump, giuliani, sydney powell, michael flynn, remarkable, they had anything to do with this, but they were now shifting from a quasi-legal strategy to just an outright coup, to try to figure out how they can seize the voting machines, how sidney powell could be a special counsel with the authority to make criminal charges, and we know they would be based on absolutely nothing. and the screaming and yelling, and rudy giuliani, and just, you know, trying to impress donald trump with her toughness, and with no evidence, it is an embarrassment to this country. it is a stain on the oval office. and it was clearly the catalyst for trump targeting january 6th, as the combination when there were no legal strategies lasting, and was now just time to use violence, to stop the peaceful transfer of power. this is what happens in banana republics around the country. this does not happen in the united states. but they are still

bush v. gore. you have all that jockeying.ndsey graham admits he was trying to help trump as chair of the judiciary committee, which would appear to be wrong and an abuse of power for political ends, which is why this is broader than trump. we're talk at a party that used to say its founding tenet was a skepticism of goth power. at its most conservative it was supposed to be libertarian. very concerned about federal power. lindsey graham is a federal officer. or any big government power. from women's rights to the way they're interfering in elections, you just have basically all of that going up in smoke. take ron desantis down in florida. consolidating control of an elections police force which he says he will control in a new state office that will now go after voter fraud in ways that, at least critics and nonpartisan observers say, shows meddling in free and fair elections. all of this is not only concerning that it happens at all, but that it's happening in more brazen ways because they're admitting it in public. so, what

once it was given to the people, as in bush v. gore illustrated by the supreme court, it becomes a fundamental right of the people. so as far as i was concerned, for someone to ask me, there was no evidence being presented of any strength. evidence can be hearsay evidence, it's still evidence but it's still hearsay. but strong, traditional, quality evidence? anything that would say to me, you have a doubt, deny your oath. i will not do that. and on more than one occasion through all this, that has been brought up, and it is a tenant of my faith. that the constitution is divinely inspired. of my most basic foundational beliefs. so for me to do that because someone just asked me to? it's foreign to my very being. i will not do it. >> during that conversation, speaker bowers, did you ask him if what he was proposing had ever been done before? >> i did. >> and what did he say? >> he said, well i'm not familiar with arizona law or any other loss, but i don't think so. and that was also brought up another conversations, both with him and wit

. >> we've just concluded the most consequential supreme court term, certainly since bush v. goreative majority had it in a huge decisions just in the last week of its time, limited at the -- carbon emissions, making it harder for states to keep guns off the streets by massively expanding the reach of the second men meant, and overturning 50 years of president by ending a federal constitutional right for a woman to control her own reproductive health. the court also agreed to hear case that could give state legislatures power over election related issues, the power grab that trump and his cronies that we're trying to pull off in 2020. this group of right-wing justices, five of them elevated to the supreme court by a president who came to office by losing the popular vote, are now in a position to fundamentally change the country. as elie mystal put it yesterday, quote, honestly, the supreme court defines its own power. it's now run by people who think the federal government was a mistake, and yet people in the federal government are not willing to check this institution, what do y

well, you know, i looked at that bush v. goreort of my own office, with the air conditioning on, and i've always thought this thing is so easy to understand. but when i was standing out there in the bitter cold on that december night, it seemed to be fairly opaque at the time. there was no head note on it, lots of things -- language about what it wasn't, and it did take a while to figure out what it was. >> i've been asked this question before, when you know you don't have the safety net, like, that's a moment you know the safety is not there, is exhilarating or frightening? >> it is exhilarating when it is over, it is frightening in the moment because it does occur to you this is not a good time to screw up. >> so, you've always been able to be sort of -- you've always taken yourself out of the story. give some advice to a young journalist, they want to be ther advice? >> i don't know if that's anything to aspire to or not, but i think i've been lucky about coveringcovering. you having to agnostic about who is the winner when it

and it was a little bit at the end of the clinton years, you were seeing this in bush v gore, but the bush presidency and 9/11 meant there was an equally energized group of people -- on the left. >> they were correct, in retrospect. >> it was a very valid critique but i do not see people self-consciously looking back to the lessons of those years. most of the journalists in your newsroom are going to be younger. as a group of editorial leaders, people our age -- reference point. >> do you think the lessons of a horrible hit -- the aftermath of a horrible terrorist attack apply to this moment? >> the lessons of skepticism and putting curiosity and inquiry at the center of what we do, rather than superficial judgment, that is a lesson for any time and is easy to forget. i do not feel strongly about this, but i would into her some of those lessons put in practice in january are more stylistic in adjectives as opposed to the real substance of it. we will now say trump is lying. fine, but i have never yet found a person that said, i was inclined to believe trump but i read in the new york

caller: i wanted to say that i lost confidence in this supreme court going all the way back to bush v gorehat happened, that was it. now, if you look at the supreme court now, it is to slanted to the right, and everybody knows that. the majority of americans, if you look at the polls, they are totally against what the supreme court is doing right now. i want to be fair, there are a lot of americans out there. they see it. it is a shame. john roberts actually lost his court. he does not have control of his court, and we know that. you look like the lady from my cousin vinny! host: ray is next in north carolina on the republican line. caller: hey! i agree with the supreme court. i think they are just mad because of this abortion stuff. i think they are doing a great job. talk to you later. host: jim in kentucky on the democrats' line. hi, jim. host: -- regardless of what your name is, go right ahead. caller: it's just. -- it is jeff. i am a longtime democrat. really listening to your previous guest, i took home economics for one reason, and that was so i would not have to take a foreign lang

caller: i wanted to say that i lost confidence in this supreme court going all the way back to bush v gorehat happened, that was it. now, if you look at the supreme court now, it is to slanted to the right, and everybody knows that. the majority of americans, if you look at the polls, they are totally against what the supreme court is doing right now. i want to be fair, there are a lot of americans out there. they see it. it is a shame. john roberts actually lost his court. he does not have control of his court, and we know that. you look like the lady from my cousin vinny! host: ray is next in north carolina on the republican line. caller: hey! i agree with the supreme court. i think they are just mad because of this abortion stuff. i think they are doing a great job. talk to you later. host: jim in kentucky on the democrats' line. hi, jim. host: -- regardless of what your name is, go right ahead. caller: it's just. -- it is jeff. i am a longtime democrat. really listening to your previous guest, i took home economics for one reason, and that was so i would not have to take a foreign lang

if this reaction had occurred in 2000 after bush v gore, the individual -- the individuals behind hisnstruction would more likely than not have been shot but we have the same people who the right will not accept it elections anymore. we have reached state legislatures that are trying to strip rights of voters for minorities from people who have been imprisoned and who have served their time. that's not something to be proud of. at the end of the day, we are nearing a banana republic if we have a supreme court that on one hand says that it is up to the states to decide issues of portion, there is no implicit right to privacy for that but at the same time, the federal government will tell the state of new york that you are wrong, you don't -- you cannot carry a gun but we will tell you what to do. i think we are reaching a tipping point in these united states that we are going to either fall into the abyss were eventually we will get our act together and become a great country but right now, i don't have a lot of faith in the future with the current leadership that we have. caller: keit

if this reaction had occurred in 2000 after bush v gore, the individual -- the individuals behind hisnstruction would more likely than not have been shot but we have the same people who the right will not accept it elections anymore. we have reached state legislatures that are trying to strip rights of voters for minorities from people who have been imprisoned and who have served their time. that's not something to be proud of. at the end of the day, we are nearing a banana republic if we have a supreme court that on one hand says that it is up to the states to decide issues of portion, there is no implicit right to privacy for that but at the same time, the federal government will tell the state of new york that you are wrong, you don't -- you cannot carry a gun but we will tell you what to do. i think we are reaching a tipping point in these united states that we are going to either fall into the abyss were eventually we will get our act together and become a great country but right now, i don't have a lot of faith in the future with the current leadership that we have. caller: keit

here is the thing with the electoral vote system. 22 years ago and this was before bush v gore, two guysa guy named slashing her -- two guys suggested that we have 102 bonus votes for whoever carried the national popular vote. that would probably guarantee that no candidate can lose the popular vote and still win the electoral college. but how about every state they should also mandate that every state with more than three votes goes one vote for every district they carry and two votes for every statewide win. that's the way they can deal with that. i think those who want to get rid of it entirely, that is a pipe dream. host: thank you so much. one more call on this. any in georgia, independent line. caller: so we are supposed to imagine a system that would be more fair, less contentious. and the whole thing is red and blue. i don't think the presidency should be voted on by the people , that office you should ascend to the presidency through the state department. so once the president's term is done, we would have the president to a term of six years in the secretary of state to a four

. >> gore v bush the 2000 election recount and we were all trying to figure out what did it mean andares his knowledge. >> he has a scoop, he doesn't have to be the face of the scoop. >> he's warm, he's welcoming. >> he's a good wonderful human being. >> the three loves of ruth bader ginsburg's life, the family, the law, and opera kind of a tough day here >> i'm never forget when tim russert died the network gave pete the impossible job of writing the story. >> tim russert was most of all a family man >> he could do the hardest story, but key also do a story that broke his heart and he could do it in the most loving way possible >> pete williams, nbc news, washington >> he's so special he's unique. we love him. >> for me, he's always been my consigliere, if i could ever have somebody to be a consigliere, it would be pete williams. >> there will never be anyone quite like pete williams. >> he is the heart and soul. >> we will truly miss him. >> to me, pete is irreplaceable. >> oh, my goodness >> how do you feel on this day, pete i know we're a basket case >> the first thing i look at