she's on the committee, and now marcia brac busha blackburn. i did not serve with her. but it's going to be interesting to see how they use abuses in fisa to try to legitimize a political argument, and they're just going to ignore all the convictions that this investigation produced from the department of justice? by the way, these convictions weren't in state court. these were department of justice prosecutors that obtained convictions for a wide variety of trump-associated bad actors. and they're just going to ignore that. >> frank, there was one part of the fisa -- let me ask this. and this is something, i asked john brennan this yesterday. it's clear carter page was working with another part of the government. now, usually you don't become an informant unless you've done something wrong and you've been flipped. so i do want to, like to remind people, most of the time -- most of the time when you have an informant, they're not a great person. >> no. >> they've probably done something, and this was their way of trying to stay out of trouble. but at what point should t