maria butina is part of putin's political party. the purpose of her being allowed to create this sham supposed russian gun rights organization ended up spelled out in the criminal complaint that federal prosecutors unsealed against her the very day that president trump was standing alongside putin in helsinki nodding at him and smiling and him and agreeing with everything he said while john bolton stood on the sidelines of that summit as the president's national security adviser. butina was charged by federal prosecutors with being an agent of the russian government who was not actually pursuing gun rights in russia, although she posed as a russian gun rights activist. according to the criminal complaint and the case against her laid out by federal prosecutors, that whole russian gun rights thing was a scam. what she was really doing was using the u.s. gun rights movement, specifically the american nra, as a pretext to infiltrate the conservative movement and the republican party in this country on behalf of the government of russia

>> i believe it's going to have to involve maria butina. again, it's my assessment that's the thing motivating vladimir putin and the kremlin to do this. then it becomes a political and policy issue as to whether or not we'll look at the laws maria butina broke when she was working for the kremlin and whether or not there's a way to reach an agreement to say you have an innocent american, we have maria butina. let's see if we can't work something out. that's a policy issue that has to be worked through by both governments. this is the price of doing business with russia or any autocracy, you have to deal with folks and sometimes barter like this. >> steve hall, your insight and experience in this realm is invaluable in trying to unpack a story like this. we certainly appreciate you being on. thank you. >>> my pleasure. >>> coming up, 11 days in, and president trump is taking aim at the democrats' plan to reopen the government. so where does that leave negotiations right now? >>> plus, a new year and a new warning for the u.s. why north kore

laura: you are talking about maria butina, the russian who was arrested here.as been charged with trying to influence the american political process. you e seeing this as tit-for-tat potentially? lindsay: it is tit-for-tatotbut they arequal cases. there is ample evidence that maria butina was committing espionage. n,ag very low-level pawn. u.s. intelligence operates differently. we are not going to use someone who is so shoddy in their tradecraft within russia. when you are conducting u.s. intelligence operations u thin russia, e highly trained. and nothing about mr. whelan's background even suggests he would have an affiliation with u.s. intelligence. laura: do you think moscow would try to push ts to the point of trying to arrange a prisoner swap if they wanted to get maria butina back? lindity: absolutely. s not as if maria butina has the russian nuclear codes, but it is an embarrassment to russia and an embarrassment to putin, and in a way what seems like a l sperate move, wrapping up some american individer there, in a way is very clever because you could

way what happened to maria butina and maybe more than just p.r. we have to be very careful here but i do think you'd have to say circumstantially those two things coming at the same time would lead to you think that although officially they are not saying -- in fact some people in russia are denying there's any connection, it certainly appears the timing would indicate that there could be. >> and it's no surprise people in russia are denying that connection, given we know how russia operates. any thought on when russia when they say whelan was detained while carrying out an act of espionage? >> right. i've been reading the russian media reports and statements and they are being very careful to present this as an extremely legal action. they say he was caught red handed, essentially, in some type of espionage activity. they said we are following the letter of the law. they even put in the official statement the charge and the number of the charge in the russian legal code, et cetera. so what they are trying to say is we are following exactly what w

one russian, maria butina. she pleaded guilty to engaging in a conspiracy against the u.s. as part of her deal, she admitted she tried to build relationships with nra members as a way to infiltrate republican political circles and influence u.s. relations with russia. she worked at the behest of a former russian banker and lifetime nra member who was sanctioned by the u.s. last year. years prior to her arrest, butina managed to ask trump about his views on russia at a political event. >> if you elected as president, what would be your foreign politics in relationship with my country? >> i believe i would get along very nicely with putin. okay? >> reporter: despite trump's prior support for a ban on assault weapons, he became a darling of the nra. the gun rights group shelled out more than $30 million to boost trump in 2016, according to the center for responsive politics. >> to get the endorsement is a fantastic honor. >> reporter: mueller's investigations were interested in how trump and his early operatives formed a relationship with the nra. how trump wound up speaking a

butina agreed to cooperate with prosecutors investigating russian meddling in the 2016 election.his annual news conference, putin talked about butina, and at one point warned about what he called "the principle of an eye for an eye." which is why the russian media is speculating tonight that the american may have been taken to be offered for butina, a classic tit-for-tat trade from the darkest days of the cold war. >> duthiers:next on the "cbs ev" a colorado man is charged with murder in the death of his fiance. the question is: were others involved? .s... and joints. megared. [sneezing] ♪ you don't want to cancel your plans. [sneezing] cancel your cold. the 1-pill power of new advil multi-symptom cold & flu knocks out your worst symptoms. cancel your cold, not your plans. new advil multi-symptom cold & flu. i'm ray and i quit smoking with chantix. smoking. it dictates your day. i didn't like something having control over me. i wanted to stop. the thing is i didn't know how. chantix, along with support, helps you quit smoking. chantix reduced my urge to smoke to the point that i

is this payback for the butina prosecution?g obviously of these two events strongly suggests there's some sort of a linkage. this is very unusual spy case compared to those we've seen recently play out in the sense that the russians have not given us more specific details. they allege that this american was caught in the midst of some sort of an espionage act, but they haven't given us any more evidence. when i was in moscow as a correspondent and there was a case involving british diplomats, they immediately trotted out on television videotape footage, extensive allegations about what the alleged spies did. that's not been the case here. new details are still emerging about the biography and background of paul whelan and, you know, it doesn't really add up for me right now. someone suggested to me earlier tonight that perhaps president putin would prefer to have someone who wasn't a classic spy in order to trade them for someone who might be a more valuable asset like maria butina. one person has made a comparison back to nick

we have evidence of trump and butina being in the same room, donald trump jr. meeting aleksandr torshin and others, you know, that allegation has been out there. so we just wanted to see if this was true and go further and probe further. and we're not able to every time we've tried. the good news is we can now look. >> you were on this program and other programs complaining last year that the republicans who were in control at the time, that they were blocking investigations into the influence that the nra may have had on the trump campaign. are you going to start investigating this now? >> yes. part of what we're going to do is fill in the gaps where the republicans would not allow us to go last time. so we can actually subpoena records to follow the money. so one issue that we are going to follow and chairman schiff has been pretty clear about this, is whether the russians were laundering money through the trump organization. so we can subpoena deutsche bank records. we can look at his tax returns once we get those, and i think have a clearer picture of wheth

my guess is it probably is butina because of the timing and because putin would rather get butina backn the information that she has and given the possibility that mueller and others might be interested in whatever information she might have with regard to her connections to the nra and other conservative causes in this country. but yeah, my guess is probably butina. >> let's talk about the russian model and self-declared sex coach, anastasia vasukevic. has been freed from police custody in moscow. many thought we would never see her again. we were saying she looks like she's drugged and taken away. are you surprised by that? and is she still in danger? >> if she's still in russia, she's absolutely still in danger. again, it's difficult to know what's at play here because again, there is no system there. it's not as though all of the sudden the vaunted russian legal system has said oh, it turns out we don't need to hold her or there is no legal case against her. this is oleg deripaska, the oligarch and the lieutenant of vladimir putin who she was hanging out with. and is it possible he

his attorneys openly about a possible exchange for maria butina. butina is behind bars in the united states. more on that after the break. you're watching msnbc. rtunities with a level of protection in down markets. so you can be less concerned about your retirement savings. talk with your advisor about shield℠ annuities from brighthouse financial, established by metlife. this round's on me . hey, can you spot me? come on in! find your place, today, with silver sneakers... included with many medicare advantage plans. call the number on the screen now or visit getsilversneakers.com whoooo. with tripadvisor, finding your perfect hotel at the lowest price... is as easy as dates, deals, done! simply enter your destination and dates... and see all the hotels for your stay! tripadvisor searches over 200 booking sites... to show you the lowest prices... so you can get the best deal on the right hotel for you. dates, deals, done! >>> all right. now to russia from prosecutors have filed charges against an american businessman arrested there last week. russi

last month he condemned the detention of a russian woman, maria butina, in the united states.accused of building back channels to republicans ahead of the u.s. elections. might russia be banking on a prisoner swap? either way, this crisis threaten relations with the west even further. at its heart is a man facing a potentia 20-years prison sentence for espionage. sarah rainsford, bbc news, moscow. ra ini: for more on this cas spoke a brief time i go to shane harris of "the washington post," and i began by asking if multipleountries applying pressure will make a difference? shane: it is quite significant because now paul whelan has these multiple avenues of diplomatic approh that he can make to get help for his situation in russia, so he has the u.s. government, but he has the canadian and the irish government now, and notably he appears to be trying to avail himself of all of those available channels, which might be an indication of what he sees as the severity of the situation.ni rawe have heard from the uk foreign secretary accusing the russians of using whelan as a politica

>> well, what putin sees is that he has a weak hand with butina and others, and he wants to strengthen his hand. it is easy to grab any american in moscow and accuse them of spying and put them in a horrible situation. i feel strongly for the family that, i mean, the uncertain the ti of this must be terrible for the whelan family, and they deser deserve the full support of the u.s. government and the full power of the u.s. government to make it clear that this kind of stuff cannot happen. >> and let me ask you finally though, and i mentioned it when i was talking to the brother that the family put out a statement that they are concerned for his safety and well-being. so what happens next? >> well, a lot of things can happen next. i mean, if, you know, they are going to -- first of all, the russians will make a number of crazy allegations which they'll say confidently about what mr. whelan has supposedly done. what i can say for sure is that the allegations will be full of lies, because i have seen the allegations they have made against me and others in politically-motivated cases. afte

the butina collection not a good look for the nra. why trump called on her, i still don't know. see in this suggestion? >> what i see is how i have been making sense of mueller's investigation since it began which is that russia's active measures had four main threads. one was a social media disinformation campaign. that's one thread. you have another which is the hacking of the dnc server. another is political influence and using agents to charm and bring in people in positions of power and then a campaign finance thread. we have seen indictments and charges brought on the first three threads. the social media, the hacking, the political influence with butina and what this is is a little tidbit that mueller is, in fact, looking into this potential fourth thread of whether russia may have channelled illegally foreign funds into a federal campaign in violation of campaign finance laws and, you know, that increase in spending by the nra, butina that overlaps in this area would raise suspicion on that front. >> first of all, it may seem odd in this day and age but until recently th

one trailing end of the mueller investigation is the indictment of russian citizen maria butina. she was criminally charged for i ledgedly acting in this country as a secret agent of the russian federation, sent here to influence the republican party in the 2016 presidential campaign through the nra and other connections. she initially pled not guilty, but has since pled guilty and entered into cooperation agreement that requires her to cooperate with local, state, and federal prosecutors. now, we know from an accidentally, momentarily court filing, she secretly testified to a grand jury in washington, d.c. about what? we do not know. we also know from publicly facing court filings that prosecutors in her case have urged the judge in her case to leave in place a gag order that prevents butina's lawyers from talking publicly about her case. they made that argument about the gag order saying that gag order should remain in place so as to not prejudice any forthcoming criminal trials involving new defendants we haven't met yet, who may be indicted based on testimony and evidence pro

you mentioned butina, sort of commonality here and i think that's important. think putin is probably interested in getting butina back into russia as soon as possible, out of u.s. hands. and i think that it is his way of reminding us that hey, i've got a little bit of leverage here so let's see if we can't figure out a way to make this work. >> the fact that whelan has four passports, that he had a russian social media page, any red flags there? >> not really. he's got a family that covers a number of different places. his brother lives in canada, his parents were british, so he has legal, you know, legal reasons to have all of those passports and indeed i've met a lot of people over the years who have multiple passports for no nefarious reasons. so that does not necessarily cause any pause. really, there is nothing about his behavior, his presence on the social media is a little interesting in the sense that you have to have pretty good russian to be on that page and i'm not sure how good his russian is. but besides that, there is nothing remarkable at all. a

maria butina, an alleged russian spy cooperating with the feds here in the u.s. that aside, are you seeing a connection with what seems to be too coincidental with the timing between these two people and the developments surrounding them. >> there is no direct connection obviously between these two cases. maria but tin a a pro gun lobbyist who pled guilty of conspiracy after being accused of attempting to infiltrate conservative groups to influence americans. she will be sentenced shortly. the only connection is the timing of it. it took place two weeks ago. president putin and others in the russian government expressed outrageousness that this person has been accused of conspiracy in this way. they want her returned to russia. vladimir putin a week or so ago at the press conference said he wouldn't be adopting retribution to get her back. we won't arrest innocent people in exchange for someone else. just a week or so before this paul whelan figure was detained for alleged espionage. look, i mean there is no connection except for the timing. what a lot of people

has got to be terrifying. >> maria butina, who pled guilty to spying.h. >> exactly and she's cooperating now, that they have been signaling that wouldn't it be interesting to take or maybe a good tit for tat would be to take an american citizen and that's what they've done now, and the solution is only going to be a political solution. this is not a legal issue. >> you've used the word hostage a couple times here. this is a serious word, bob. do you agree? hostage? >> i agree with juliette. he's not a spy. he could have been freelancing on something dumb but the russians would know that and wouldn't have arrested him, not let him in the country, something like that. they know he's not a spy. they're probably worried about what butina has said about her mission here, that there could be other indictments, who knows what they're worried about, but putin, at the end of the day, looks at butina as a hostage herself because she wasn't properly spying. she wasn't collecting, stealing secrets. so, he's furious about this, and this is a message to the trump adm

an nra staffer worked with the butina.a former sheriff david clark who posted pictures had his $13,000 flight and visa reimbursed, records show, personally by the future nra board president. i'm thinking about moscow visit and keen was hoping to meet putin according to an e-mail. keen has not responded to cnn's calls for comment. tonight, the national rifle association is now going on the record, distancing itself from the 2015 trip. an nra spokesman tells cnn, the ceo was against the trip, did not want any misconception it was an official nra trip and convinced the nra's president not to go. ron widen, who is investigating the trip, says that doesn't wash with him. >> it's just not credible to say that this was not an official trip. if you just look at the pictures, which have come out, it's got official trip written all over it. >> reporter: the house and senate intelligence committees are investigating because of concerns that russia may have been using the nra to support trump. >> we heard credible allegations that the

. >> they asked questions of the nra and butmaria butina.was that. >> well, they thought, he would tell me they were dating and he called me to see if butina can get a picture with the president. i said it is not going to be possible for me because you know the dynamics of the campaign. >> did you know why butina would want a picture with the president? >> i didn't ask. russia and the nra and this russia/nra thing that i had heard about, it made sense to me that paul was an nra activist and had an acu, he was on the board that he would be involved in something like this. >> did you have any indication or wonder why russian nationals were interested in getting close to the president. >> well, this russian national maria butina. she was at scott walker's announcement. she had other pictures or things like that. to me it was because of paul having maybe a romantic dolly. >> that's what i took. it did not raise flags to me there was some russian activist at the time. no, it did not. >> sam nunberg, thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you.

butina back and they want her quiet. eric: how do we get mr.out springing butina or is that possible at all? >> i don't know that we can. this may be very much like, you know, gary powers who was in the soviet russian detention for some period of time. i don't know that we can give the russians anything here that would be politically advisable. this may be just very unfortunate case for mr. whelan. eric: what does this say about if you want to travel to russia or china for that matter? if you're a tourist and want to visit moscow or st. petersburg, look at the museums, they have the power to snatch you off the street and plant evidence perhaps? >> that's a great point, eric. this is something the russians have to be very careful about, as do the chinese. foreign tourists bring in lots of hard currency into those countries, especially important in russia. russia is desirous of foreign investment. is this going to slow it down? i think that fear as you point out may have if anything -- may bring the emotional temperature down in this case. the ru

of course vladimir putin wants nothing more than to get back maria butina, to get her back to russia.and strangely donald trump also would be incentivized to do that because his administration wants nothing less than to have her go into a court and for the details of not only her activities, her ability to penetrate the soft underbelly of the republican party and the broader conservative movement including the nra, but also to -- but also to detail her cooperation with the u.s. government. that is not something that the trump administration would benefit from having out there and it's something that i fear president trump and president putin could find? agreement on. >> all right. ned price, ambassador michael mcfaul, thank you both for being with us. >>> coming up, she is the first big name democrat to wade into the 2020 race, but how do the numbers look for elizabeth warren as she heads to iowa this weekend? heading over to the big board when "the 11th hour" comes right back. back >>> we are building a movement across this country. you saw it. you saw it in 2018. look at all the peo

but the other twist, it also seems strange, why would the russians want to trade him for butina exceptor his own appointed lawyer, the russian appointed lawyer has said explicitly that and that is very bizarre, too. by the way, this is a lawyer that's very close to the russian government, close to the russian state security service, the fsb, the former kgb, and he basically said that in a press conference about this arrest. so there's a lot of strange things going on here, and i confess, i don't understand it. >> we seldom here that from you ambassador. >> i'm telling the truth. >> as the way it stands, and i know that jill is also thinking the same thing, related to the complicated relationship with russia, talking about trying to get back a u.s. citizen who's being detained right now, there's the statement related to russia that the president had brought up just within the last 24 hours. now, i want to play that, and this was related to russia, excuse me, wednesday, related to russia as well as afghanistan. take a listen. >> the reason russia was in afghanistan was because terrorists

clear that this action on the part of the russian side was retribution for the us arrest of maria butinang as a foreign agent in the united states, and this parity is very important to the russians, so no surprise they would try to arrest aus no surprise they would try to arrest a us citizen and now trying to set up a us citizen and now trying to set up what may likely be an exchange. talking so much about, there is now four countries involved in this, this becomes much more complex, the uk has come out and spoken out against what has taken place, does that put any more pressure on russia? absolutely, it is not clear what are the motivations for the arrest, if the kremlin was aware of, that he was notjust a us citizen but also held for various passports, this makes it far more complicated for the russian side, if in fact they were trying to set this up as a one—to—one quid pro quo exchange for maria butina and now not. it is another case of the west against russia once again. in terms of the prisoner swap, a lot of speculation about it, how likely is it to take place? without knowing mor

maria butina built connections inside the nra and republican party.ing then do you want to continue the poli of sanctions? >> rep lastth she pled guilty to conspiring to act as aned undisclosgent of russia in the united states. nbc news traveled to her home, dis previously unrepo details of anxcsive intew wh herfamily. maria was and is a very keen person, h father said. ce would always reach her goal. theld who loved dolls, voll and harry pot er a very differe image from the woman in a cowboy hat at anr meetg in nashville. in11 20 butina in her early 20s set gun rights organization russia. 2016 she moved to the u.s., enrog as a graduate student in internation relations at amer uniy in washin. documents show her actions were directed by a russian gove official, all part of a plot to influence conss and even the trump campai, in order to gain acce to the white house and she had support r fromh and we're talking about a operate that got herself invid to the homes of sitting repu politicians. she was present at nra meetings, beca a real influencer. >> rep

believe this is retaliation for maria butina? >> reporter: some think it could be, david. the russians will likely present some kind of evidence, fabricated or not. already, a russian news agency is saying whelan was caught with a classified list of russian operatives. but if convicted, whelan could face up to 20 years in prison. david? >> all right, martha raddatz, thank you. >>> the president making news tonight with what he said about defense secretary jim mattis. mattis, of course, resigning in protest. the president then telling him to leave immediately. the president told reporters today he gave secretary mattis new f-35 fighter jets and f-18s. >> general mattis was so thrilled, but what's he done for me? >> and it wasn't just mattis he was upset with. the president then pointing to a meeting with several generals, he said, just weeks ago. >> we have an area that i brought up with our generals four, five weeks ago, where taliban is here, isis is here and they're fighting each other. i said, why don't you let them fight? why are we getting in the middle of it? i said,

butina are equivalent characters. >> i'm not certain. that's what makes this intriguing to me.he administration say. >> that's why i think it's very interesting. if we do decide to do a prisoner swap, i'm wondering why? what pressure has been placed or forced upon the president to ultimately direct the state department and say, we need to release this lady. >> and i'm interested in what the congress will have, you know, in terms of going forward, what hearings they may have on -- as hearings go on, what hearings they may have on these issues and what other things they might bring out in some of the subcommittees, right, on what is happening as well. i think this is a story that we're just getting headlines now. but i think the detail of it, you know, will come out months later and it will be a much larger story. >> i think one difference is when america charges someone for spying, our government, our department of justice makes a case. russia does not have that type of reputation. they don't need to make a case. they snatch them. >> this turns into more of a diplomatic dispute

of butina?e don't know, it's a mystery. i don't think it will be a mystery for long, as i said. (voice) you know what you're doing right now? (danny) impressing the heck out of me. also, giving a shih tzu an updo. pet care ain't easy. 12 hours? 20 dogs? where's your belly rubs? after a day of chasing dogs you shouldn't have to chase down payments. (vo) send invoices and accept payments to get paid twice as fast. (danny) you deserve a treat. and by treat i mean cash. bacon-wrapped cash. josie...it's time to get yours! (vo) quickbooks. backing you. from capital one.nd i switched to the spark cash card i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy. and last year, i earned $36,000 in cash back. which i used to offer health insurance to my employees. what's in your wallet? better things than rheumatoid arthritis. before you and your rheumatologist move to another treatment, ask if xeljanz xr is right for you. xeljanz xr is a once-daily pill for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrex

it's tied up with the butina case which is fascinating.see the nra exposed as being so vulnerable to russian influence say fascinating twist in this story of influence in american politics. >> we know that maria bu teen was trying to make end roads in the nra and laura points out she has pleaded guilty to acting on behalf of the russians 'what the do you see? >> i don't see this as a critical piece of the investigation. let me give you a way to think about this, alisyn. that is if you get that information about butina, if you look at the amount of money that the nra was investing into this campaign. if you did not look into whether money going into the nra was dirty, somebody could ask the special counsel, you didn't bother to look? i'm not here to suggest that the nra did anything significantly wrong. i'm saying the reverse would be if you get that information on beaut tina and say it doesn't look significant i'm going to leave that on the cutting room floor, that doesn't make sense to me. >> we don't know how farther pushing here and we

believe there's some connection between his detainment or arrest and the pleading guilty of maria butinaian spy, there's a month between that. do you see any connection, this is some kind of retaliatory move potentially by russia? >> it is so hard to know. every time we turn around, we seem to find another dot on the map. i don't know if maria butina's case is involved, i don't know if the arrest of the man in the north mariana islands has to do with this. because of the dinkind of work o as a librarian, i looked up paul's old website address which has been in the news. it was bought 54 or 56 days ago. it is impossible to know why anybody would buy that domain name. it is impossible to know without any detail to understand if they're connected. >> do you believe that the u.s. government, the trump administration can do, should do more? >> i think that i am a librarian and doing the best i can for my brother, so are my siblings. we will try to help him to get home. and people that know how to get him home are in the governments of the united states and the other governments helping paul,

whelan's lawyer is speculating that surveillance began long before maria butina pleaded guilty, but it certainly seems more than a coincidence that they arrested whelan now, with some american officials believing this is strictly retaliation and that whelan was an easy target because of his travels to russia. david? >> all right, martha raddatz reporting live tonight. thank you, martha. >>> next this evening, the abc news exclusive. the abc news special later tonight, "the last days of john f. kennedy jr." and right now, rare footage and new reporting on the fateful decisions made that night. here's abc's deborah roberts. >> reporter: john f. kennedy jr. and his love, carolyn, felt the glare of the spotlight from the very start. >> clearly, if you look back on it now with the benefit of all these years, they were under stress even before they got married. >> there was one particularly revealing moment when they were dating and on the beach, and suddenly, they encountered the paparazzi. >> come on, john. >> don't [ bleep ] do that. don't come up to my girlfriend when she's on the beach

> reporter: what's most likely is whelan's a pawn in russia's quest to get back one of its spies, butina. >> they want her back and they need to create a situation where they can offer a swap. and mr. whelan is that person it seems to me. >> reporter: the state department says today it is not commenting in respect for whelan and his family. and mike morel said his arrest should be a warning to anyone thinking about a trip to russia. you do not want to go to moscow right now. >>> pope francis today accused american bishops of bickering and gossiping as the catholic church confronts sexual abuse. they gathered at a retreat in illinois. francis said the church's credibility has been undercut by these crimes and even more by coverups. officials in at least 14 states are investigating accused priests. >>> coming up next, a gadget designed to collect ocean garbage breaks down. we'll hear from the inventor. still fresh... ♪ unstopables in-wash scent booster ♪ downy unstopables >>> it was launched on a mission to skim nearly 2 trillion pie plastic from the pacific ocean, but the $20 million boom

look, this guy's lawyer was the one who said himself that he's really intent on getting butina back.e's no doubt as to what's going on here. the bottom line, anderson, until the united states of america, and until the rest of the west and the alliance that we have, not just nato but our western relationships, decide they're going to push back hard on vladamir putin and they're not going to put up with this stuff anymore, that they're not going to put up with hostage taking and holding out for somebody like victor boot or anybody else, butina or whoever it might be, he's going to keep doing this. based on this administration's relationship, comments, thoughts about vladamir putin and russia, i am not sanguine as to the likelihood this is going to end well for the united states, or perhaps for this american citizen who is being held by the way in a horrible prison. it's not a nice place, regardless of what this lawyer says. >> thanks to both of you. >>> remember that fake movie poster that was sitting on the table in front of the president at his cabinet meeting? kellyanne conway was a

maria butina is about to start cooperating with robert mueller. it's going to show that vladimir putin, through a person who worked for him gave money through her to the nra to try to help trump. this is the closest we've gotten to putin trying to effect the outcome of the u.s. election. he doesn't have any cards in his hand right now. he needs to get some. the leverage that he's got is to arrest a random american, hold him hostage and create some type of prisoner swap at some point in the future. and hopefully not have butina cooperate with mueller. >> to that end, bill, what do you think the u.s. should be doing in this case or in the big picture approach with everything you just outlined? >> well, i mean, you just looked at that chart you put up there, they grabbed a bunch of ukrainian sailors. they arrested paul wheel an, they cheated in the elections, done all sorts of other stuff. russia is a hostile country, hostile to american and western interests, they should be contained. that means taking the sanctions program that's been developed and

so i think we should be careful about concluding maria butina is the prize here.as already begun cooperating and presumably provided a lot of information already about the russian activities in the united states. i do think there is a desire to get her back before she has the opportunity perhaps to testify against certain, in certain cases in the future. so there may be kind of a time crunch on that end. but there are a lot of russian citizens who have been arrested by the fbi that we don't even know about. a lot of people detained by the u.s. that maybe russia is desperate to get back. so i think that's certainly a consideration here. whether or not, you know, he actually is a spy, that is something that i think we need to be careful about, because there is so much not known about him and he is an interesting figure to say the least. so i think we need to wait to see how this plays out. if a trade were made of butina that would be completely outrageous. she has already pled guilty. she admitted she was trying to influence the election and the trump administration

maria butina is still awaiting sentencing in the u.s.st 24 hours the russian foreign minister saying it is unfair to accuse maria butina of subversion saying in the current climate almost any russian is accused. guys? >> all right. thank you. >>> up next, how gillette is responding to the growing backlash against its controversial ad aimed at men in the me too age. but first these messages. it ind she's watching too, saying [indistinct conversation] [friend] i've never seen that before. ♪ ♪ i have... ♪ i have... ♪ ♪ the russells travel to a different swim meet every saturday. but now...it's thursday. good thing they discovered gain flings. the only detergent with concentrated gain, oxi boost, and febreze odor remover. hey dad, you just got an invisible high five from parents everywhere. try new improved gain flings. i looked for realed ingredients for real taste. absolutely no artificial flavors or preservatives. knorr selects real ingredients for real taste. something important. it's not going to be easy. quicksilver earns you unlimited

, for maria butina, do you think that this was put together earlier on when she was first apprehended and arrested, or after she pled guilty? >> obviously i don't know the answer to that question, but it strikes me as a classic tit for tat strategy that vladimir putin has used in the past. remember last summer in july when he met with president trump in helsinki, mr. mueller had just indicted 13 russian intelligence officers, and so putin showed up to that summit to say, well, i have a list of a dozen americans who we believe have broken russian law, and it was a completely fabricated set of ideas, and i know because i was one of the people on that list. >> yeah. >> and this strikes me as a very similar kind of tactic consistent with previous behavior, and if it's not, then the russian government should provide details about why they have detained this american. >> but also in the past, haven't they done this but hasn't it more been a catch and release situation where they arrest individuals, and then they deport them basically from the country? they make them leave the country immedi

speculated that whelan's arrest is retaliation for the arrest of russian gunn rights activist maria butina who in december pleaded guilty to conspiring to act as a russian agent without registering with the justice department. butina has been jailed since july after being accused of trying to infiltrate the nra and other right-wing groups in the lead-up to the 2016 election. china's space agency has released a photo from the lunar surface after its chang'e-4 space probe became the first ever to land on the far side of the moon. [no audio] i me t that a musliand d an amereran. one -he killing of accoing to "e wall street echo in why theututrage bs cfusion is understandable. he's been getting way th this for alst yearsitith alst n no blowowba. regimestland thsaudi the persecutn of wom a and humaman ghts activist d its ongoinwar in yenen. he alslscalls s t the long-standg g relaonshship betwtwn saudi abia and the uned states and skerers th weern portrayal ofhehe cro prince as modern rorormer. amy: the censored isisode s beenieiewed re t tha1.6 million tis on youbebe. it remai a available to o

i just want to ask you, do you think paul whelan has anything to do with maria butina has -- pleading guilty in the u.s.? >> i think it has everything to do with it. they think it's an unjustified arrest and plea agreement because in fact she wasn't technically a spy, she was not working for the fsb or svr, its external service. she was just here promoting russia. and in putin's eyes, this is some sort of retaliation from the fbi and the justice department. so what we're seeing is putin no doubt is hitting back at the united states and may hold this guy for very long time until we respond in the fashion he wants. >> the former denies he a is spy here, a former marine and in security. is that a typical background for someone working in the cia? >> absolutely not. we don't use corporations like that as cover. additionally, again we do not send people to moscow who do not have diplomatic imcommunitmunit. it's too risky. no agency in the united states would be so stupid to do that. he's a pawn in this game between moscow and washington. >> right. and i want to get your thoughts on that no