c-span radio 90.1 fm. which part of the constitution is important to you? that is the subject of this year's student cam competition. be sure to include more than one point of view and video of c- span programming. entries are due by january, 2012. the grand prize is $5,000. for all details, go to studentcam.org. >> now more for the activism media policy summit. industry leaders agree that with the -- that twitter and facebook are changing the way that media is gathering information. this is an hour. >> good afternoon. we are about to begin. i will be your moderator for what i hope is an exciting conversation, on a topic that is near and dear to everyone of us on this panel, and that is why you are in front of me. i want to welcome you. this is the second annual amp summit. we will be focusing on today in this track and in this particular session on from a perspective, how has the news industry change. i am the general manager of aol's political division in town. i was formerly with the huffington post. prior to that i was with "roll call." i will let everyone on the panel introduced themselves. >> i am jim barnett. at the ripe old age of 43 i went back to management school, and i studied about non-profit models for a journalism. before that i was a washington correspondent. >> i am an editorial director for the journal of higher education. i was most recently that editor for four years, and now i am in charge of strategy on the digital side and all the old print side for our publications. >> i have been active in teaching journalist how to use twitter and other social mid ia. steve buttry. >> i'm a blogger for npr. i am also part of their social media team, which started off about three years ago, and it was an evangelizing thing, and now we manage the facebook page and npr social media presence as well as cloud experiments. >> the structure of our organization for this conversation, i want to throw out a framework for the program, and that is when i look at media companies and we talk about each individually at various times, when you look at the landscape and you try to evaluate what news organizations are doing, three stocks are at the back -- three stocks are at the back of the envelope. how content is generated, distributed, and been monetize. each of those three areas today, we will have each of the panelists talked about how their organizations see as the trends that have changed in both those categories. the content generation side, when we look at the last five years, how the newsroom hierarchy's have change, where was the hierarchy before, what does it mean in terms of how we get a content, when we consider the role of the byline o? >> the thing i will throw out is the rise of non-profit modeling. what we are seeing is as legacy models are crumbling, nonprofits are jumping into the business and they are doing news or something that looked a lot like these. one of the things we have to figure out is how we can have news within an advocacy organization. >> it is interesting in the last five years "the chronicle" has gone from a centralized model where it was generated only from people on our staff to a model where it is decentralized. we still have a staff of 70 reporters in washington, but we have more freelance correspondent around the country. we use a lot more contributors to blogs and other opinion and advocacy areas. that is something that is definitely different in the last five years. the other difference is we are partnering with other organizations like we have not done before. we partner with the coveted post and provide content to their college vertical. weak partner with "the new york our reporters run stories in "the chronicle" and "the new york times." given how higher a education has expanded, we need to find new ways to generate content. >> we saw a great example of how the community is generating content at the lunch presentation, the picture of the easy chair and the sinkhole was a good example of the fact that the tools of publishing are in everybody's hands, the theirself fun now. so the community is generating content. that content as different degrees of reliability. that was an actual picture that made me think of another involving shares. some of you may have seen it which was tweeted a lot, making the rounds after the recent earthquake, a picture of a couple of plastic lawn chairs that had tipped over. picture, it circulates every time there is a mild earthquake. some of the california had fun with it. so a lot of the work of -- journalists still need is content that the community is not treating, but a new function of the journalist is the creator -- the curator, where you are gathering the content from the public and finding the best way to present eds and also to -- to present it and also to vet it. this one was somebody having fun, and they had that fun several earthquakes ago. the setting and verifying of the content that the community is creating is a big function of the journalists now, and a function that the npr colleague andy has really pioneered in a way that i think we are still trying to figure out what is the future of that testing and verifying in real time. which is a set up for you. >> i think for us, that shift was probably a little easier for most -- than most, because in some way the public radio system has always had crowd sourcing, has always had the public creating content. you see it just very simply in college shows. it is a sin dyadic relationship with the public. -- is a semi attic relationship with the public. going from that into going and gathering information on the arab spring through twitter, it takes a bit of a mental leap for some, it is a natural transition. what has been happening in our organization is people have become believers that the people, the masses, provide high-quality information, that we do not have access to,. . when things started happening in libya, we realize, there is no one there. we had no one there. very few north news organizations had people there. what we were getting was wrong stuff coming out on twitter, and we are still learning how to vet and present that. my colleague andy has been doing it,n twitter -- let's do let's go for, and on our blog we have been trying to take some of that and craft in more familiar ways for the broader audience. the point is we are still learning on that part of it. >> i think it is important for all of us to appreciate the distinctions of each of the panelists in terms of the platforms of the audience that they are talking to. it is a great thing that we're hearing right now, the theme that there is a broadening of the definition as what is considering input, and those inputs have broaden themselves not just from byline, original contact, but take what non- profit journalism is doing now, the social space, but is important still, the newsroom providing content. the broadening of what we might consider a and input into that equation is still interesting. what is interesting and a good point of what i want to talk about, jimmy brought up how organization can act as a news organization. if you look at npr, it may have an agenda. but in terms of the world that you have been trying to help them think through, how you -- as an advocacy corps position, how you become a news organization? >> one of the things that an organization has to decide right away is the one to support journalists, and all that entails. one of my favorite examples is from a hundred years ago. mary baker eddy, the founder of the christian science church, which the attack by the liberalism of the day, and she decided that free independent journalism would support her church, so we have the christian science monitor. that model is pretty well established as a way and advocacy organization, the church, can support real journalism, and it continues to this day. the question is, how to your it?anizate how'd you find that this is the case for flat to be attached to the case for journalism? that is something you have to think about and figure how you are going to do that. you have to then roll with the punches. if the or journalism does not take you where the organization does not like, then you what to think about having a journalistic enterprise. >> transparency is interesting. he's a couple words out how technology has allowed or the soil they did or accelerated the ability for an ad is he -- and advocacy organization -- >> the american red cross often functions like one. they have some the first people on the ground when there are earthquakes. the technology is accelerating the need to be transparent, and when people take a source of information, they are willing to take it from aarp or the red cross, and it is a quick shorthand way of how it is structured. over time you can have a model that works where you have more than one a voice coming from the same organization. >> when you think about non- profit journalism, there is one type that acts as a type of journalistic enterprise to support its cause, another one that is a huge trend that you appreciate at take it as different input into your own newsroom is an organization trying to support foundation support some of the traditional aspects of journalism. if you want to talk about a little bit, let's think about what the role of foundation support is -- journalism and how to traditional outlets taken that had accounted. >> i think with the decline and possibly the collapse of traditional business models that we are in a time when we are going to see a lot of different models, and it is not going to be like here is the model of the future. it is here are the models of the future. to be candid, the past was multiple models, too, including the public broadcasting -- which was a combination of government and the nation's, member support, so on. clearly, it is popular in the newspapers, the traditional media that i come from, even though my work now is pretty much all digital, is to sing the praises of the newspapers and all the watchdog journalism's that we did. the fact of the matter is that a lot of the journalism we did was pretty much routine commodity coverage of stuff that was happening in the community that could be done somewhere else. i think that propublica and texas tribune nonprofit model, california watch is another one. there are several out there that are encouraging. it is trying to say we are not going to try to do everything like a daily newspaper dead. we are going to focus on this one hugely important public service kind of journalism, and hope that we can find philanthropy that will support that. so far they are doing a good job. >> the idea that the public service and support in public service journalism, and a phrase that i think is crucial, thinking about the changes that have happened in the news industry, commoditization. the bureaus in washington that are no longer here, they were not vocalizing, not telling a story differently. it all starts by sounding like the ap. you think that foundation support of journalism, nonprofit journalism, is continuing that type of content, or does it bring something to bear in the way we approach a news story? >> the fact that all of these public service type foundation- funded things are starting from scratch, they are starting small and without the baggage of saying we got to cover sports, entertainment, city hall, we got the cover everything. they can say we are going to cover this slice and covered it very well, and i think they are choosing slices that are not commodities. i am not aware -- there were some good day that journalists doing things in texas, but i am not aware of a texas news organization that made the that analysis, data presentation as a central part of its mission as texas tribune. where that data can be available and certainly our lunch speaker saw how government can make the data more accessible, if you are in a place where the government is not doing that, you are really in the territory that at this point is not, the ties to. -- not commoditized. you have to adapt and adjust. the market is gone to change. >> some of the examples we have been talking about are still fairly general. what you are seeing in some areas, especially education, is that since many newspapers have been essentially given up on covering k-12 education and higher education, you are seeing foundation-supported efforts in that area as well. that worries me a little bit. you're starting to see the hechinger institute out of new york, out of columbia teachers college, producing content. you see them in "the washington post" and other organizations. without knowing who is supporting this efforts. with hechinger, it is the gates foundation, it is the broad foundation, all of whom have an agenda, and you start to wonder about what types of stories are not being covered by these non- profit organizations because of the agendas of their foundations that are supporting them. you might say newspapers used to get advertising, but for the most part they got general advertising. national retailers. they supported the whole enterprise. they supported our coverage from athletics the government. in this case, the gates foundation has a specific agenda on college completion k-12 education. you have to wonder about the story traces that those or or is is are making or not making. >> talking about the agenda- driven concern, and then npr and the trials that npr has had in the pasture, where funding is being an issue as well as whether or not there was an agenda-driven news from. how does that affect the few? >> obviously that was all over the news, but the idea in traditional newsrooms is that there is a fire wall. i think maybe that is where we are getting too, in the traditional newsroom, journalists, as soon as you get hired, you sign that could of the ethics and you are supposed to abide by that. obviously that does not happen all the time. i think a lot of people brought up some issues about the project we just launched, which is the state impact, where we are trying to put two reporters in each state, to report on state politics. people were wondering where that money came from, if it came from george soros. we got attacks on that part. there is a well-defined fire wall in the newsroom. you tell your public you have to drop us on this, and that is what news organizations have dollars all along. i can tell you that fire wall is certainly there. >> it is important note also that may be the most successful for-profit new journalism organization of the past 15, 20 years is fox news, which, despite its fair and balanced slogan, has a pretty transparent agenda. and a transparent agenda that was launched in response to an alleged agenda with varying levels of tree behind allegation of the liberal media. it is interesting that going back to the firewall issue, most of the organizations in the so- called liberal media are organizations of journalists who might tend to be liberal, working for companies that are very big corporations and quite conservative. those fire walls -- if the liberal media really is liberal, then that is some evidence of a fire wall is working, even if journalists sometimes have their own agendas or their own biases. >> i think some people forget is non profit models are devolving quickly. four years ago we saw propublica starting with foundation funding. now uc nonprofits and grass- roots efforts. texas to begin. also they are trying very hard to develop commercial revenue streams. you are also seeing you structures in place. i think about investigative news network which is the umbrella news organization for 60 news or diseases around the country, and they are trying to develop revenue sources. it is a mater of a number of things. the people who give you money have to sign off on that, and if they don't, you do not want to take the money. >> the market makes a big difference. if aarp is successful in producing a credible news about topics of interest to the retired and aging population, they are going to find a sweet spot that is going to keep them sustained. if they are pretty much a pr arm of aarp, they will be not very successful and will not last. >> transparency is import. the idea that put it out there. they are giving us money, and we underestimate the intelligence of the public, which is what you are getting too, which is that the public will know that this is good, that this is trustworthy, this is something that you are not getting from someplace else. i think that news organizations should allow the public away -- to make that decision by giving them all the information they need to make that decision. >> we will move to the next topic of -- have looked at the first 10 minutes, content generation. now we will talk about distribution and i will start with jeff here. again, to make sure that the audience -- jeff is coming from the chronicle of higher urbanization, which is an extremely successful or his agent, not on everybody's read our, so it is helping with readership do their job, people who are running the higher education institutions, people who work at those institutions, navigating the nuances that are in the industry. and herbs of thinking about content distribution, i know as a veteran, a challenge when i was running at "roll call" i got behind the wall and you only wanted me to write university presidents. you thought that the content was important for the entire world to see. talks in terms of distribution it from the perspective as a former editor and now as a strategist, they need to focus on your core audience as well as being mission driven to a higher idea of serving the second ballots of higher -- second balance. >> we have had a paywall. at the beginning you could not get through it at all. that has evolved over time. now about 40% of our content is free. unlike "the new york times," we did not use a meter system. we have put a lot our opinion stuff there because we want to reach that the broader audience of opinion makers. we but that's about it. we put in breaking news where it is a commodity. for example, a couple of years ago after she attacked when the shooting happened, we had reporters on the ground, and so did every other organization in the country. we wanted our stuff to be out there. we talk about news being a commodity. we put that in front of the payable. -- paywal. if you want to know how much a college president makes, how much harvard's endowment is, all that is behind the paywall, we will write stories in front of the pit wall to give the basic information, but if you wanted get deep into it, we put it behind the paywall. you see many new or organizations moving to the paywall model because news organizations need that revenue stream. unlike "the new york times," where they have made this mistake by treating all their content hosting, saying there is a meter and at some point you run out during the month, whether you have read our big investigation of obama, i think news organizations that treat their content that is a specialized, put that behind the paywall, those are the models that are growing to succeed in the future. >> thinking about the paywall, we are thinking about one platform. we're thinking about webb distribution of content. ahmacommoditization -- you are talking about differentiation. you start thinking about the role that i have had in terms of your solution in terms of various platforms. >> that is where our futures are going. we launched our ipad app in march, and with in march we had 50,000 users download it free to readers. we are in slightly different situations because we have readers who are willing to pay for information that they need to do their jobs. >> you want them to pay for access to other platforms as well? >> yes, for right now, we have to because once we start giving away content for free, readers will expect that. "the new york times" seems to have succeeded in it. once you let that genie out of the bottle, it is difficult to bring that back. right now we cannot find -- we have had found some advertisers interested, but we cannot find a ton, so we need to find revenue stream to support that. somebody has to pay for all these reporters in the newsroom, and whether that is a foundation, advertising, readers, somebody has to pay for it. when you take readers out of that equation of paying for information, that put so much pressure on you to get revenue from other sources. >> what is your sweet spot, looking at the role of media planning in terms of lengthening the life cycle of a news story about giving new legs to a news story. talk about that and in terms of how npr as unbelievably the vault into something much more than just real content and using these different platforms to extend the life cycle of the story. >> we are in a completely different situation, and that is where npr evolves from a radio company to a media company, which is -- that is not necessarily where people are getting all their information, radio. we have to be on facebook, we have got to be on the ike pad, the iphone. we have to be everywhere, and our contact a few years ago, it was about two years ago or three years ago, we put out an api is a fire hose that you can hook on to and take our concept -- content. our philosophy has been take it, it is there, this is our public service which is informing you, and we have also obviously people pay for npr content, listeners pay it through their member stations. we make those pitches, but we are online and we are everywhere because that is where people are. i like to tell the story of how the facebook page was born at npr. that has about 2 million fans, which is pretty hefty for a news organization. it first started, people at npr were having questions, what is that thing, is that a marketing thing? what do we do with this thing? in a few days later, legal says there is somebody who has npr on facebook. what we do? they are freaking out. mailing, like, eamilin it. and then we hear from a college kid, who says, i love npr. had all the language is needed to have, everything. he said he can have it, you can have it, here are the keys. we sent him a mug and a tote bag. he is still an admin on the page. what that does for our content is incredible. in some ways we have a home page, for reporters and producers and everyone else. it is like get my story on the facebook page because of the amount of traffic it drives is incredible, and it extends that life period for radio into the web, and that is really nice. to give you an idea of how big the facebook distribution is, it is second only to google as far as referring traffic. that is from our page, not from people sharing it. >> could also talk about the referrals and the sharing and how you evaluate sharing in terms of facebook. >> we have seen that increase a huge amounts, and at some point we do expect people -- or the social part of it to take over google as far as referrals. you could see it on an everyday basis on how well stories -- we post only about eight stories a day on facebook, which we also made a decision from the very beginning that it was going to be an editorial product, which means that it would have an editor and each story would be handpicked, and some of it would be getting the feel of what this is and how it works and what people want on it. and so we treated the same as we with our home page and the same as we would a show, which is each one has a very different feel. "warning addition -- "morning edition" is very different from "all things considered." >> i do not know of a new site that does that well. a little plug. steve, i wanted to put a spotlight on your background of it that i think is a big role in the distribution discussion, which is the growing importance of local content and what you have seen of the light -- last year's in particular of this market where you try to build an audience that is local in a unique way, you had challenges, and what you see that as a feature of local cut debt? >> i think that hyper local, which is a buzzword withich peoe interpret differently, local at areerent levels c, is we olution.ly in the evil l in the evolution of local journalism into the daschle marketplace. jeff talked about -- into the digital marketplace. jeff talk about a narrow market segments that is delivering highly-without you specialize content that the consumers generally cannot pay for. they are expensing it or writing it off on their taxes. it is hard to picture a local organization relying as heavily on donor support as public radio in with the statewide organizations. we need to look for what the successful model for that is going to be, in terms of distribution and in terms of connecting it with revenue streams. the newspapers never made our money, never supported our content by charging for it to. if you pay for a newspaper, you are paying for paper, ink, gasoline, and maybe some of the wages associated with production and distribution. you are not starting to pay for the content. the content is all supported by advertising. advertising does not work the same way on line in
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