c.e.o. of morgan stanley and there's been some press recently about his efforts to change the shape of the firm and bring leverage down low risk we're not very optimistic about too big to fail bank reform and way more interesting to us and compelling is a bank that our guest has been writing about is kind of a case study in conservative vanilla banking it's stay that way during the boom despite temptation and is one of the best capitalized banks in the us today so we're genuinely interested not in hearing about morgan stanley but hearing about the third federal savings and loan as a case study of sorts why and how this bank resisted the temptations of financial innovation and lived to tell about it so chris mayer author and managing editor of capital in crisis tell us how did they survive and thrive through this boom with with resisting the temptation of financial in innovation well some of that is they they learned say no so they were they didn't get involved in the a lot of the crazy mortgage lending that went on and so it cost them market share and in the short term but long term course they