c.h. robinson, echo, xpo, land star, asset light companies. >> so what makes those -- let's call it a c.h.obinson, former food contributor about 100 years ago, good value? is it a lower chinese currency? >> no, no. what happens is this, if i were to look at my group, if i look at the truckers, look at the railroads, and i would say what's the single largest thing they can do to create economic value for shareholders? i would say it's improve asset utilization. in the current environment, asset utilization is declining and declining dramatically. on the other hand, if i were to look at the nonasset, the logistics players, what's the greatest thing they can do? the greatest thing they can do to generate shareholder value is to improve their gross margins. their gross margins are exploding because they're still selling at contract prices to move goods, but they're buying at spot and with the drop-off in demand, spot market pricing, especially for trucking, has been plummeting. >> so if you like a c.h. robinson, does that mean you like expediters also? >> expediters isn't a direct competitor.