for more on this, i am joined by pulitzer prize-winning reporter caitlin dickerson who is a staff writer the letter, focusing on immigration. caitlin, you and i always want to have more this conversation but we are always jammed up by some stupidity and congress or on the southern border that hijacks the conversation. so, let me just start with the basics here. you always talk about needing to distinguish between immigration policy and border security. they are not the same thing. >> that's right. and you have even heard some republicans in congress start to acknowledge this, because tying the two things together really harms our economy. and the reports you just referred to, they reinforce stories that i have been hearing for years covering this debate. which is that within days of people crossing the southwest border they tend to have jobs. they are working in food service, and agriculture picking crops, they are doing child care, they are cleaning, they are doing landscaping and construction. so that, over the years, has started to say to me that our debate, i think, is skewed. as ame