i mean i-- you know, every now and then they, listen, something like caitlyn jenner, that's, that's gradeen, you know, having the courage to run caitlyn on the cover. but he doesn't come to the shoot, and we don't talk about what is going to be. >> rose: so what was his contribution? >> that he has the wherewithal to run something like caitlyn jenner on the cover. >> rose: an i would say, he has the confidence to trust you. said to me the definition of a good editor is being able to recognize a great writer. that's it. and a photographer is a great writer working with a camera, rather than a pen. >> she gave me, when she was working for "the new yorker" she gave me the o.j. simpson story. and i was like, oh my god, you know. i remember watching it at night on the news thinking i'm just so glad i'm not. there and then i get a call from tina and says go out and, and, and shoot this. and it was-- . >> rose: just go shoot it. >> yeah. no one tells you, i mean i had a hard time getting into the court room, like i was trying to go the standard way with all the-- with all of the you know get on th