i did let califano knew that i was writing a book. he was pleased to hear it, but i did not interview him. i have poured through tens of thousands of their early contemporary memos in the early 1960's. i looked through scores of newspapers. i was able to consult oral histories. four califano. moyer has never sat for a session with the library. brian: here is a photo that includes moyers and watson. and horace busby. who are the people standing with lyndon johnson? joshua: most people know who bill moyers is. moyers was a young minister, -- was a young ordained baptist minister. he grew up in texas, a lot of the guys who worked for johnson were from texas. from very modest upbringings. he ended up, he did not take a pulpit. he was a brilliant student and very sincere and earnest theologian. he ended up working for johnson and johnson's media business, a television station that lady bird owned. he worked his way up as an intern. jack was just a friend. jack valente was the youngest advertising and pr guy from texas who johnson knew. he

that particular story came directly from califano, who remembered it. this is oral history that was done years earlier which suggests to me was probably reliable. even if the dialogue, you have to take it directionally. nobody can remember that conversation verbatim two or three years later. at this is purely ended johnson. you'll find stories like that this pervades volumes about johnson when he was younger guy. this is simply the way he operated. he likes to assert his dominance in a room. he didn't in ways that were crude. it is not hard to understand why schlesingere arthur found it completely unappealing. brian: jackie mentioned earlier. -- jack you mentioned earlier. joshua: he became the appointment secretary. he was the gatekeeper. he decided not only who did and did not see the president, he decided what the president saw in terms of staff memoranda. and staff work. that was critical. johnson kept what he called a two-day day. he would get up very early, put in six or seven hours. the first swim, take and now, and go back to the oval office unt

e didn't think highly of califano. even califano's supporters in the white house acknowledged he was an empire builder. he built a policy empire in the basement floor of the west wing where he'd commandeer secretaries and young aides. he was a power house. jacobson sort of didn't think highly of him. jacobson also didn't like moyers as well. i think he was a bemused insider who didn't have a great affinity for most of the actors and was there because of his relationship with johnson but not deeply part of that great society project. >> you grew up where? >> i grew up in new jersey a little town called bordentown in central new jersey. >> what were your parents doing? >> my dad was a political reporter, my mom was a social woker. my dad covered trenton, the new jersey state house. i remember as a kid in the late 1970's and early 1980's living and breathing state politics in the same way that horace busby and this crew grew up sort of living and breathing austin state politics but you know, probably the age of 4 could na

and joseph -- author joseph califano went on to devote nearly 60 years not only to pursuing government service but to enable that in demand the best of succeeding generations and served in the defense department early in his career and was johnson's chief domestic advisor and secretary of health education and welfare under carter and remember, if not for joseph califano we could be setting aside a smoking section tonight. [laughter] his other accomplishments include the regulations that included and enforced title ix , equal opportunity for people with disabilities, and and and two official discrimination against lgbt community. in addition to that record including the triumph and tragedy and in forgetting about an unbelievable conference during the johnson years to share so this is also on addiction or substance. but will have ample time but serves on our other version of damaged democracy, we the people must act in the taino that shows and then for future action is agreed to toying -- to join me to also journalist who made fairness national and help to make the great society great b-

fairness fashionable and a man who helped make the great society great, jim lehrer and joe kelle califano. [applause] >> that would be video. anyhow, books, to begin, literally the way that you began your career list with a very unusual dedication. let me read this, this is the dedication to his book. for the women and men who gave their lives to public service in the nation's capital and states, cities, towns and counties across america for legislature, executive offices at court, dedicated public servants to develop their talent and energy to designing to serve all the people, executing the law with confidence and compassion and adjudicating the cases with justice and mercy. i've been privileged to work alongside thousands of them and there is no one with whom i would rather pass, execute, and adjudicate or debate about than a committed public servant. why didn't you feel moved to do that, to dedicate this to public service? >> they are the heroes of our society over many. i didn't understand that but i begin to grasp that when i was in the navy. i spent three year years in they and the

others like joe califano, a young attorney working on robert mcnamara at staff joining the white house and 65, new nothing about the mystic policy. he was a defense policy guy but they tasked him with wanting policy and the most effective white house counselor who ever hold the portfolio. harry mcpherson, white house counsel on the senate staff, the most even keeled of all of them, the one who refused to let johnson get under his skin, refused to take his phone calls at night. johnson rarely yelled at him because mcpherson would shut down and not respond, he was also a playwright, he wrote a number of plays a bunch of you guys, george reidy had been press secretary for a while and longtime johnson aid. mcpherson did not allow him to get flustered. he had a stories and posttest -- tempestuous relationship. >> i refer to them as planets around the sun but in some ways that creates a sense of an order that didn't exist. this was a staff in which people didn't have clearly defined roles, they shifted their roles, not unlike fdr where he would favor somebody for a while and move away and fa