calpers isgesting one example? maintain alternative funds in hedge funds or are they that they can use the tiger cubs? what does the big money do after 3, 4, six years of ugly investment returns? do they go back to vanilla investing? there are still plenty of hedge funds around that would love to have their money and other good investors around to. they had huge amounts of money and can by berkshire hathaway. which is in itself an almost alternative invest. what is your actuarial assumption? it seems to be almost a fiction. do you have and your head and actuarial assumption for big, serious money? i do think you should -- the return to go , it is rates go down a vicious competitive tom: market. tom:exactly. is not a 7% bogey for the greater public. itit 4% real return or could be lower? julian: i think the prospects of , if we have that bubble burst, you are not going to make any money in the stock market are short or or and less you are in some sort of hedge fund. mike: stocks get overvalued and they go down. when