please welcome calvin trillin!use) ♪ welcome to the show. >> thank you. >> trevor: fifty years reporting on race. most people -- most white people i know can't even watch "12 years a slave." how have you done it? >> well, i think i just got interested, and i think certain amount of it has to do with empathy that i think most white people, you're right, can't imagine being a black person, and think of it as something theoretical rather than personal. when i think of that, i think of an experience i had with the university of georgia integration, the -- one of the undergraduates, charlayne hunter, was in a dormitory full of sort of hostile coeds, so we talked to her on the phone quite often. she's still a friend. one day, we were talking about a trip she had taken back from savannah, and she said it was awful on the train. i said, i thought it was a very good train. and she said, not where we have to sit. and i knew a lot about interstate transportation and all of that by that time but all of that trained from my min

i've pleased to have calvin "bud" trillin back at the table.r a more appropriate moment to have you. first let's talk about police violence against minorities, and at the same time the assassination of dallas police officers. >> there's a story in there about a police shooting of a black man. >> rose: right. police would have said a robbery suspect, that the black people of seattle thought a white policeman killed a black man. that's written in the '70s. i think it's not a new situation, but what's brought it to the fore is iphone cameras and video from camcorders, and these body cameras they have. i think -- i think that what happened in dallas made me think of how fragile everything is. it's taken one guy -- because in a way what was happening in dallas was something that was -- that was wonderfully american. there were the cops protecting peaceful demonstrators who were demonstrating against the behavior of the cops. and that is almost textbook of what free speech and democracy is supposed to be. and one guy can stop it. i think that the dif

our guest writer at th the "new yorker" and author of "jackson, 1964", calvin trillin is joining us,lause) first, let's talk about beaks. a few days ago britain voted to withdraw from the e.u. and england is take it seriously. >> days after voting to get out of the e.u., england is out of the european soccer tournament. >> one of the greatest days in the history of football. iceland are in the quarter finals. >> 2-1 loss to iceland last night will go down as the worst moment in england's football history. >> trevor: wow the worst moment in england's football history. they've had tragedies where people died and this is the worst moment? that is a smart move crying into the ground. the guy is just, like, i may have let my country down but i'm not ending up as a bloody meme! hide my face! (laughter) i don't think you understand how big an upset this was. this was the first time iceland ever qualified for the european cup. nobody ever expected them to get this far. unlike england whose manager has millions, iceland's manager is a dude who works a part-time dentist. in england, went home

. ♪ ♪ charlie: calvin trillin is here. he's a staff writer at the magazine since 1963.d as it journalist about civil rights in the south. the new book is called "jackson 1964." it is a collection of reporting on race in america. i am pleased to have him back. never a more appropriate than to have you. let's talk about police violence against minorities and at the same time, the assassination of dallas police officers. about athere is a story ,olice shooting of a black man the police would have said a robbery suspect. the black people of seattle thought the white policeman killed a black man. that is written in the 1970's. i think it is not a new situation, but what is new is it ,as brought it to the fore iphone cameras and video from body mics, these body cameras they have. i think what happened in dallas made me think of how fragile everything is. you take one guy -- because in a way what was happening in dallas was something that was wonderfully american. there were the cops protecting peaceful demonstrators who were demonstrating against the behavior of the cops. tha