last weekend, ice went to the physical parsonage in carbondale -- physical parsonage in carbondale. asked her about the news that ice agents had just arresested e husband of another woman who had taken sanctuary, ingrid, colorarado immigrant rights lear who sought sanctuary to avoid her deportation. ingrid's husband was arresteted thursday, the same day ravi ragbir was detained here in new york city. ththis is sandndra lopez. being a leader is not easy. i i want to -- they want to tryo separate as to prevent us from working together. we talk a lot.t. i am extremely angngry about w t happened to ingrid's s husband. it has affected me as a mother. thinking abobout myself as a wi. i see this as an attack on sanctuary. i want ingrid d to know she is t alone. we are herere. we are angry a and we're supporting her. tore are doing this to tryry weaken us. they want to frighten and divide us, , but we need to be a stoog. we need to be organized. we need to leave behind the fear and the shadows and continue to raise our voices. there is a quote that "divided we fall," we are going to stay st

in carbondale, colorado, immigrant rights activists joining nationwide women's mamarches on saturday will rally to the defense of sandra lopez, an undocumented immigrant and mother of three who's taken sanctuary with a local church to avoid being deported to mexico. lopez is a leader with the colorado immigrant rights coalition. she has fought removal proceedings since she was arrested in 2010 after she says one of her children mistakenly dialed 911. charges in the case were dropped, but she's faced the prospect of deportatation ever since. this is sandra lopez speaking recently with democracy now! from inside the unitarian parsonage where she's taken sanctuary with her 2-year-old daughter. >> we need to be orgaganized. we need to leave behind d the fr anand the shadows and cocontinue raising our voices. there is a quote that "divided we fall" but we're going to continue defending our dignity and continue defending sanctuary. amy: the trump admdministratatin has removed haitians from eligibility under a pair of u.s. visa programs that offer immigrants a chance to work in low-wage job

she is in sanctuary in the unitarian parsonage in carbondale, colorado, right next tothere are four peoplen colorado right now. your organization, ravito aspen. she is fearful she, too, could be deported. , just put out a memo that more people are taking refuge in churches than we have ever seen. since the 1980's. >> it is hard to ignore the pattern that has been emerging over the last several weeks. when you look at not only ravi's case, but others -- amy: just deported to haiti as president trump made those "s-hole" comments about haiti. >> exactly. you see this targeting of people who have been outspoken about the need for justice in our immigration system, people who have affiliated themselves with the sanctuary movement. it is hard to believe that there isn't active targeting going on because these are the same individuals who for years have been living with us, who have often been engaged in open communication with ice and try to fix policies at a local and national level. and now they try to be -- start to be targeted with no explanation or judgment as to what has changed that made

. >> host: we have chuck from carbondale illinois. >> caller: hi. i have a simple question.ke this. what is the question between the rush of today and the china today, the federal government and is there a favorite between the two how they -- i will hang up the phone now and listen to your answer. >> host: thank you for that. >> guest: is a great question. we know from historical reading and from spy novels, about the meticulous tradecraft that the russians have used. the intelligence has been the mother of russian operations going back to the czar time. we would write about fake news and meddling and manipulation. russians were buying up newspapers. newspaper reporters you know again and that time in the early soviet services. understand how they operate. they are meticulous, they stage their operations with great care. the chinese were always thought to have a kind of more distanced approach.it was often said chinese would not try to plant the mall in the top of the adversary service. as they so brilliantly did. they would gather a thousand grains of sand. that was afraid