carl riccadonna: the part that are doing better seem to be industries that have adapted to the worldal distancing and working remotely, etc. things like brick-and-mortar retail clearly are still struggling as we saw with retail sales over the course of the fourth quarter. but as we look at other industries, manufacturing, industrial production in general, even some services that are able to operate in the new environment, things like financial services and real estate, for example, we are seeing incredible resilience in those industries. i do think this is a sustainable improvement, not just a one-time reaction to stimulus. lisa: how much can the fed recognize the good news that you're talking about in a press conference where they are going to try to avoid any discussion of a taper tantrum or a taper concern afterwards? how much do they have to ignore the good news? carl riccadonna: at the risk of being glib, the fed can sit back and pick up -- kick up its feet in 2021. they did the heavy lifting in terms of policy maneuvering and also in terms of communication in 2020. now is the t