. >> the "wall street journal" from carl rove, the gop strategist saying, quote, it would strengthensident while alienating independents. it's an ill-conceived tactic and republicans should reject it. now there's another, the same senator is saying bring it on are also saying so many words we probably can't win. acknowledging they simply don't have the votes and that is earning the ire of their house colleagues who are about to go way out on the shaky legislative limb. tim griffin tweeting, so far, senate republicans are good at getting facebook likes and town halls, not much else. do something. a nameless house gop aide went further referring to the texas state senator who filibustered an abortion bill. senator cruz is now promising to get tougher. plenty to talk about which chief national correspondent john king, gloria borger and political commentator ana navarro. are republicans as divided as it seems, or is it just the loudest voices being heard? >> well, yes and yes. republicans are divided on this. and let me start with the idea that i think is unlikely to have a government sh

that is a poll from carl rove. the 5000 people who marched to cure alzheimer's, do you want to tell them their loved ones with alzheimer's will have delayed treatment because of a government shutdown? it makes no sense. i come from a high quality health care state and we want to see those reforms at the clinic go across the country. we do not want to relitigate the battles of obamacare again. the house and senate passed it, the senate passed it into law, the court upheld it. will there be changes in the future? yes. but the answer is not to defund it. >> now to get to the debt limit. what we're talking about now is funding the government. if you don't do it by the end of the month, possible shutdown. that's a separate matter from raising the debt limit which you have to do to pay the bills for the appropriations congress has made. the house, i'm told, wants to pass a bill that would delay obamacare by a year and make that a part of an agreement to raise the debt limit. congresswoman, the president says he's not goi

we have amy walter from the cook political report, carl rove, and dennis kucinich. the house passed a bill running through mid december, but you have to defund obama care. how is this going to play out over the next eight days? >> rand paul who we heard just a moment ago said this won't work. it's a strategy that the house remembers and the house republicans won't work. the best thing they can do is to try to work changes in obama care. that tells me all i think anybody needs to know about this. they don't have the vote. the procedures they're talking about following is so complex. at the end of the day it's all backed up by one thing, the threat of a government shut down. the senators and congressmen can say all they want about how it's harry reid and the president doing it, and they may be correct, but that is not how it will be portrayed and seen if there is a shout down. they traditionally are blamed on republicans. >> first of all i think the blame game is firmly established and it will be in the hands of the republicans and not the president. >> why is that? >

the president saying it's going nowhere fast, and even carl rove says it's a no-win for republicans.'m neil cavuto. here's how song industry tim griffin feels about defunding obamacare. he does not care whose feelings he hurts, even those within his own party. ted cruz and mike lee were all but at hiding defeat, the

the president saying it's going nowhere fast, and even carl rove says it's a no-win for republicans. now >> welcome everybody, i'm neil cavuto. here's how song industry tim griffin feels about defunding obamacare. he does not care whose feelings he hurts, even those within his own party. ted cruz and mike lee were all but at hiding defeat, the congressmen all but tweeted they were quitters. quoth here, so far the republicans good at getting facebook likes likes and town h. to the congressman, whoa. you start something because they're holding pressconferencet they said. what do you think? >> well, fitter of all, i would never tell anybody where they can go. look, and i read karl's article. he didn't say that general idea was a bad one. he said a shutdown is a bad idea. look, i'm from -- >> neil: to be fair he said the idea that make much progress trying to defund thing this going nowhere fast. a principled argument but the numbers don't help you in the senate, and the president would veto it, and far apart from a veto-proof majority. >> he only pass bills in the house we knew the pres

and it's not just democrats saying this, republicans like carl rove, the "wall street journal" editorial board, the u.s. chamber of commerce. president reagan's own budget director are all saying this is not only political lunacy but incredibly irresponsible from a policy perspective. and those aren't exactly lefties. but, look, republicans in congress right now, all they care about is saving their own political skins from the ideologues in their own party. so they'll do whatever it takes. they've thrown out all pretense of getting results in favor of the politics. >> cruz isn't really an example for what all republicans are trying to do here. and the filibuster doesn't necessarily speak well for the republican party. >> no, you're not kidding. i mean, cruz' comment that there may be 50 votes. 50 votes is what's called a majority. and in america, we rule by a majority. >> the bottom line is obama care has been inactive for three years now. it's been law for three years now, and julie stated a poll that the majority of american people don't want this. and here you go again. excuse me, let

and i could name people like "wall street journal" editorial page, carl rove, charles krauthammer saying obama care. cruz is about promoting himself, raising money. >> sean: that is a cheap shot. >> that is. let me tell you why. republican leadership wanted to do in the senate did they want to move this over to the house? why? because of one capitol insider told me with every hour that passes by there is a likelihood of the shut down of the government. we know the president wants the government to shut down to blame it on the republicans but we know that politically it's not a smart choice for rinz to go into that direction. the american people don't want to go into that direction. so they're negotiating a tool -- . >> she's right. >> sean: one big promise the president made, every family, $2500 a year savings. we know the average family is going pay $7500 more a year, except for four rates staits there are going to be right increases so that is a $10,000 swing, so, help me out, juan. does that impact your thinking that the president's promise is nonexistent snits a $7500 cause cost per

brett hume, scott kirk, gop mastermind carl rove -- i love saying that -- and fox news political analystlliams. so, brett, how did we get here where the president has been turned down by the rest of the world is in an enormous hole, 10-1 against him at least in the house on capitol hill, and he's counting on one speech to turn everything around. >> well, the sad thing for him, chris, is these presidential speeches are a depreciating aspect from the moment he takes office. he can command an audience, get the networks to carry it and so on, but over time, and we've seen this president after president, i can remember it with lyndon johnson over vietnam, over time their persuasion diminishes. the question is whether he has halted the stampede which is what happened. after he announced this, my initial thought was he was likely to get this. presidents usually do on the great big votes. but what happened to some extent in the senate and a much greater extent in the house was an absolute rush for the exits. nobody seems to want this. the constituent phone calls you suggested earlier are piling

we have amy walter from the cook political report, carl rove, and dennis kucinich. the house passed a bill running through mid december, but you have to defund obama care. how is this going to play out over the next eight days? >> rand paul who we heard just a moment ago said this won't work. it's a strategy that the house remembers and the house republicans won't work. the best thing they can do is to try to work changes in obama care. that tells me all i think anybody needs to know about this. they don't have the vote. the procedures they're talking about following is so complex. at the end of the day it's all backed up by one thing, the threat of a government shut down. the senators and congressmen can say all they want about how it's harry reid and the president doing it, and they may be correct, but that is not how it will be portrayed and seen if there is a shout down. they traditionally are blamed on republicans. >> first of all i think the blame game is firmly established and it will be in the hands of the republicans and not the president. >> why is that? >

joining me now on this carl rove. we have like duly realities here. down and then you have these articles which point to conversations with businesses around the country. >> look, when the president signed this into law the average premium for a family of four website $13,475. it has gone up 18%. nearly a $5,000 difference from what he promises it would be. so the costed are not going down. when the law was passed, the office said three million people would lose their coverage. the ceo said we are going to lose their coverage. the department now says nope, that is wrong. it is going to be 14 million people. the group says it is going to be a minimum of 17.2 million people. they are going to drop coverage and it could be 53 million people. and then we get into the problem of jobs. if we get into the business of a full time employee. we are seeing a lot of small businesses say we are going to stop hiring. we have had an average of 42,000 full-time jobs created and 62,000 part-time jobs created per month. >> that is evidence that clearly companies are mo

rove joins us. nice to see you, carl. >> great to be here. >> the gloves are off. we have the web ad from speaker boehner. >> and we'll ignore that childish comment from jay carney. let's roll this back to 2006. the president has a fundamental problem. in 2006 he led an effort in the senate saying not raise the debt ceiling saying any president asking for a raise in the debt ceiling did not have leadership. he attempted to stop the iraq war by leading the effort against raising the debt ceiling. he was supported in that effort by senator schumer we just saw a few moments ago. when we get lectured -- when the american people get lectured by the president on why we should raise the debt ceiling without any offsets on spending or get lectured by senator schumer how it's wrong to not raise the debt ceiling, just remember they were on the opposite side of this not too long ago. >> in the last day or so, president obama referred it to as extortion by congress. i guess in 2006 when he was doing the same thing, it wasn't extortion, it was something else. >> i have to defen

martha: karl rove joins me at carl. days really in between the president proclaiming this was a serious issue and we needed to do something, and the g20 and the golf games that happened in the middle. timing is everything in life. is that a big problem for him now? >> i think it is, martha. let's look at the broader picture. two years ago the president said the time has come for assad to go. it appears he had no strategy, no plan to act on that statement. that's and powerful statement coming from the president. a year ago he said it would be a red line for him if the syrians use chemical weapons it appears in the last year he had no planning, no strategy, no set of meetings designed to create a fashion at coalition if syria used chemical weapons. then we had this, you know, keystone cops, the president looks like he's about ready to take action. then on a friday afternoon has a 45-minute walk around the south lawn of the white house and decides he's going to go to congress, plays golf and heads off to the g20. the energ

. >> did you read karl rove's article in the "wall street journal" today? >> i have not read carl'sbe a huge blunder on the republicans part to link funding to the government shutdown. going down that road would strengthen the president while alienating independents, it's an ill conreceived tactic and republicans should reject it. do you want to respond? >> i don't want to shut down the government. i don't think many of my republican colleagues do. we want to give the senate, ted cruz, lee, these guys have been asking for a bill, attached to the cr, that would defund obama care. they asked for it, we gave it to them. let's see them deliver. >> if they don't, what are you going to do? what if they send you back legislation a continuing resolution that will fund the government, they send it back to the house of representatives, but it doesn't defund obama care? what do you do then in. >> i think we go to conference. listen, this is one of the leverage points we have in a divided government. as the house we control the purse string. use the leverage to get something. i think the americ

carl? what do you think? i tell you what, i'll weigh in on it. i'll weigh in on it. listen, the last i looked, there wasn't an election that put karl roveed writers aren't, you know, dealing with counting the votes that put them in office. there's something called principle. peter, i know this isn't what we prepared to talk about, you know, i was raised that maybe it isn't about the outcome of the elections or perpetuating having a job in government, maybe, you know, the elected officials from the 2010 midterms will do their job, and if they lose, fine. at least they tried. what are your thoughts about that? >> right, well, they're going to put on the table the vote. and it will be for all -- everyone to see that they are against funding obamacare. what happens next is really the most important thing, because we'll have the symbolism of it, but then we need to deal with the reality that the fiscal year ends in 11 days and then soon after, they have to deal with the debt ceiling. so there will be somewhat of emerging with the ideology and also the reality of governing. >> i agree. now, let's switch gears to the fed. i loved your piece to