> and joining me now are politics and government reporter larissa lagos, joe garafoli and car carla maranucci. carla, another revelation today that a former soviet intelligence officer was at that meeting with donald junior, the russian lawyer, jared kushner, former campaign chair, paul manafort. the list goes on. is that enough to prove collusion? >> you know, at this point, someone should remember that famous watergate phrase. it's not the crime, it's the coverup. collusion is not a legal term but certainly becoming a cultural term in this case. when you have this series of events in which the trumps have just not been clear with everyone. it was about adoption. just two days ago, trump junior was on the "hannity" show saying there is nothing more. this is handing ammunition not only to robert mueller, but to the democrats out there. like brad sherman here of california, who launched the first impeachment issue on obstruction of justice. >> how many ammunition is it, though? because there's been suggestions this is a smoking gun, right? but there is still a lot we don't know. we don't know

shawn walsh, and carla maranucci. welcome to you all. sean, i'll start with you.he other sean, sean spicer quit. >> big news of the day. you were press secretary in the reagan and the george h.w. bush ut white house. what do you make of this. >> it's not a surprise. mr. spicer lost the confidence of the president and he couldn't stay in that role anymore. now you have a new communications director and he was going to be basically put into a closet and do talking points. it's no surprised that he left. it was only a matter of time. >> you have done this job. you have seen -- how do you characterize how sean spicer did the job? what does it say about the divisions in the trump white house? you have got jared and ivanka pushing the new guy, anthony scaramucci. reince priebus looks on the outs. it looks like a disaster. >> well, it's an audience of one. i think that the president didn't think that mr. spicer was defending him and appropriately putting his messages forward and he felt compelled to do it him on his twitter. i'm not sure anybody can live up to what the p