it was not about carlos campbell. it was about ben cloud and miss resistance.s bill norman, the resistance he ran into. it was about frank peterson. we all had to adapt. this is not just the washington area. when you traveled across the country, you slept in your car because you're black. you didn't know what hotel was segregated. i didn't want to stay in any segregated places. those were kind of things that drove me. >> so fast forward, you go. the act is passed, thank god. you're working, you're working at hud under romney as secretary. talk about what kind of environment that was like and what fueled you to try to get some things done once you arrived there. >> well, excuse me. i worked for a very progressive and committed assistant secretary, samuel c. jackson from kansas, topeka, and he was a republican. i had no affiliation at all but he convinced me to come and work for him. and he was determined to be very aggressive and turning the place around as he used to say and secretary romney from michigan had been the neighbor of my first boss out of michigan s