carlucci thought she was three times as large and carnes thought she was four times bigger. whatever her actual size, the japanese sub loomed over the vallejo class boat. johnson knew they stumbled across something unusual. what he didn't realize the faced the largest submarine in the world, a sub so huge should we remain the largest until the us tritan was commission it in 1959. joneses men had every reason to feel small. it wasn't the size. she also bristled with weaponry. with the five and a half inch begun or her aft academic, three trim barrel 25-millimeter antiaircraft guns and a single 25-millimeter mount on the bridge, the japanese sub was all business. there were also eight torpedo tubes in her bow, two more than the segundo had, and it was reasonable to a assume she carried the deadliest torpedoes of the war, the long lance, which packed way more punch than the segund0ss torpedoes and had nearly three times the range and were faster to boot. if captain johnson felt alarm at the enemy's sub's contradictory behavior, he didn't show it. you could never underestimate t

president reagan had iran contra he got rid of poindexter and others and appointed myself and frank carlucci and that little known general at the time, colin powell to come in and set his white house straight under his leadership. i am not saying we're at that point yet. but i'm saying that new blood and fresh ideas are something that are fundamentally important. the other thing that you can fall back on is a reservoir of good will that you developed with the congress and with the media. and one of the things that i think everybody would say is lacking is that the first four years, at least, those trusting relationships on capitol hill on both sides of the aisle fundamentally a have not been developed. now, whether it's disdain, whether it's dislike, you always have to develop those kind of trusting relationships and right now the white house is suffering because they did not create those relationships. when all you do at a second term is fundamentally change a congressional liaison to somebody who xwoenobody has eve heard of on either side of the aisle that, to me, is not beefing up a white

general, the gentlemen who i had met in my white house fellows year at omb, cap weinberger and frank carlucci, come back into my life, remember me and i go to work for them and was able to use the high level government experiences that i had had years earlier as a white house fellow. so it really fundamentally changed the shape of my career and the shape of my life. c-span: after you discuss in the book a lot of republicans in the government, the weinbergers and people like that, you do make this statement at the end, that you and president clinton were close. what did you mean by that? >> guest: we got along very, very well. we obviously had differences on some issues gays and lesbians in the military. but as a personal matter, we got along very, very well and we do to this day, even though i have gone on to become a republican. we talk on the phone from time to time and we have very, very cordial discussions. and i like president clinton. and when we first started working together at the beginning of his administration and we had this very difficult issue of whether or not to allow gays and