we had a caller that ask about caroline harrison dying in the white house. can you tell us more about that story? >> she was in for most of the last year. the harrison presidency, there was only one term. died.f people it was a pretty gloomy white house. members of the cabinet and others who passed away. then the first lady fell ill. i invite my colleagues to correct me, i think it was tuberculosis, but i'm not sure. it was in the middle of the campaign, less than a month before the election. there was a sympathy factor, he did not translate into votes on election day because harrison lost convincingly to the cleveland's. that on the day frances left to make way for caroline harrison, she told the white house staff on her way literally out the door, will be back in four years. it may be one of those stories that's too good to investigate, but she knew what she wanted to do. >> let me introduce you to a couple of people here as we wrap up our introductions to staff members involved in this. you would think she would be butding behind the camera, these days th

we will come back to caroline harrison as we wrap up here. who would be on your list, the public image and also able to use that? >> betty ford is someone in modern times. she worked in a department store, and a clothing store. she was very conscious of fashion. she was always beautifully put together. she was graceful. she was a dancer. i think her movements exuded that kind of elegance. i think that made her very attractive, but also the powerful messages that she used. >> in the modern age, we learned that nancy reagan was criticized for the close she wore at white house events, and then turned it around when she parodied herself as a secondhand rose. who else would you put on the lists of using their image effectively? >> i would say as a forerunner to mrs. reagan being criticized, we are talking about the political payoff. americans are just as likely to criticize first ladies for apparent extravagance. coming right after dolly madison you have in liza munro, who had spent a lot of time in paris when her husband was ambassador there. she

so caroline harrison was the first president of the daughters of the american revolution. mrs. harrison also had a real sense of white house history. she began the white house china collection. and indeed she was a very gifted artist. she designed the harrison's china which many people think is the most attractive of all the white house china. , the other thing she did people would write in to her, mothers who had just had children, that they named benjamin harrison, and she would paint something and send it to them. candlesticks or milk dispensers or baby bottles. i mean, imagine the first lady, you know, of the united states spending her time. but anyway, it's a window into a woman who we really don't know nearly as well as we should. >> how would you describe the transformation of the role during this era, during this period that we've been discussing tonight? >> i think it's understated. i think by the end of the century, on the one hand you had ida mckinley who was the ultimate sort of doll-like inhave a lid -- invalid who needed care, who was adored by her husband, who ins