he said cassidy hutchinson was his point person during covid.hat's how frequently he was dealing with her in his office. so she was in a position of she was also pretty close to kevin mccarthy. so, it was striking to hear him say that in such a dismissive way, because he actually knows her. >> according to her, he called her while president trump was on stage on january 6th at the ellipse and accused her of lying to him about the president going to the capitol. >> that's right. and look, mccarthy, as you said, is another one of the republicans who has walked away from this committee, so, there's no way of knowing what his response to that would be, but he's certainly someone -- one of the oddities around cassidy hutchinson, as just somebody surviving in that world, she was close to mark meadows and kevin mccarthy, who people who don't really particularly like each other. >> there's new "l.a. times" reporting that mark meadows brought a fraud allegation to bill barr the day after the 2020 election questioning the results. according to records rel

a cassidy hutchinson, not ivanka trump.n who at this difficult time when somebody needs to stand up for democracy, she's doing this and it's actually i think easier to do the right thing and i think she will find that out and i think she will inspire other young women to realize public service is a great thing to be involved in and we don't need to have the kind of ridiculous boys that we had during the trump administration. a lot of these guys have young daughters or kids cassidy's age and she should be ashamed they're making her carry the cross when they should be doing it themselves. >> you worked in the administration. how were women, especially junior staffers viewed, although frankly, cassidy hutchinson, you know, by her age, you would say she was a junior staffer, but obviously she had tremendous responsibility and was a point person for the chief of staff. but how were women viewed, treated by not only the former president, but the senior staff in general? >> well, you know, the president was known for making commen

mick versus mark and cassidy and cipollone. and people are starting to come forward. >> i say this as a former prosecutor. we fixate so much in thinking about what is a crime and what isn't, what you can charge as a crime and what you can't. and much of the conduct people do in the world you shouldn't do can't be charged as crimes. and that's okay. a lot of this was disgraceful and immoral conduct for people who were blessed to be able to serve the american public and failed the country. and that in itself is immoral and indecent and wrong. some of it may not be criminal. i think it's important it drew that distinction knowing this was immoral conduct and shameful for anyone in the white house. >> what has struck me about -- i sat through an impeachment hearing and i saw people coming forward then. and people like mulvaney and others just enabled the president to berate those people and to continue to do things. i'm glad they're coming forward now. i'm happy they're doing it. but every one of those folks enabled donald trump. a

when cassidy hutchinson switched lawyers to an independent lawyer, not paid by donald trump, cassidy hutchinson told the committee that she was being coaxed, or threatened to stay in line. with someone leaving her message saying, a person let me know you have your deposition tomorrow. he wants me to let you know that he's thinking about you, he knows you're loyal, and you are going to do the right thing when you go in for your deposition. still, cassidy hutchinson delivered the testimony that was almost as good as having a tape recorder in the west wing of the white house. >> i saw mr. cipollone right before i walked out this morning. and mr. cipollone said something to the effect of, please make sure we don't go up to the capitol, cassidy, keep in touch with me, we are going to get charged with every crime imaginable if we make that movement happen. >> that important testimony seems to have forced trump white house counsel pat cipollone to reach an agreement to testify to the january 6th committee, which he did on friday, behind closed doors, for eight and a half hours. the committe

we haven't heard from cassidy hutchinson since then.if that was her goal, she would be out on every single tv show and signing big book deals. i imagine she's having a very difficult time, which goes to show just how courageous this was. >> the other part of the criticism, which is interesting and it's been used often by the trump administration, trump world, was the idea that this person was neither in the room nor important. the allegations about cassidy hutchison or that she wasn't even in the stadium when it happened. which we know not to be true. but it's a big part of the effort, right? here's a picture, where she is right there in the room. but that's part of the effort, even miles taylor, chief of staff at the department of homeland security, couldn't have actually known that much about it inside or didn't have that much influence. >> it's a really easy line of attack, and a really easy line of attack to swat down. i mean, ali, anyone who actually knows what they're talking about when they know better american government knows t

that gained traction, potential witness tampering at the january 6th probe following star witness, cassidy hutchinson's bonsall testimony in this week's surprise hearing. nbc news has now confirmed at least one exhibit liz cheney read out loud, detailing a concerning message in which a trump ally seems to be coaxing the witness into testifying positively on trump's behalf. well, that was received by cassidy hutchinson. >> the call received by one of our witnesses , court, a person let me know you have your deposition tomorrow. he wants me to let you know he is thinking about you. he knows your loyal, and you are going to do the right thing when you go in for your deposition. >> reporter: nbc news has also confirmed that a person reference in that message, well, it is trumps former chief of death, mark meadows. in other words, mark meadows, let me know you have your deposition tomorrow is what the slide should read. now, hutchinson has been represented by longtime trump white house lawyer, stephan pat and tina. for the last year and a half, his law firm has received payments ranging from 10

cassidy hutchinson's testimony is over now. it is a federal crime to retaliate against a witness after the fact, to take certain harmful actions in response to somebody testifying. if anybody has any ideas, they ought to lose them right now. >> yeah, no question about that, and everyone has been talking about the story of this irate, you know, trump demanding to go to the capitol that day on january 6th. cassidy hutchinson says she was told about it by tony ornato who is now a secret service agent directing the secret service training facility, but back then he was trump's deputy chief of staff, and he was the deputy chief of staff there after the being in the secret service and working close to trump. ornato apparently denies having this conversation, but now our sources in the secret service are saying this story was known inside the agency for months and months they were talking about this. how does this play into the investigation, do you think? >> well, it's one more indicator of cassidy hutchinson's credibility in my view

that was the bombshell from kad d cassidy hutchinson. the secret service said they heard a version of these. what do you make of it? >> one, donald trump knew the crowd was armed. i have not seen anything to cast doubt on her testimony about that. and, two, that donald trump wanted badly to go down to the capitol. do you know who has confirmed that? at least two other staffers we saw testimony from, documents confirm that and donald trump has said publicly, although he's changed his story several times, but he has said publicly he wanted to go to the capitol. we're in this credibility battle between cassidy hutchinson and tony ornato about whether the president lunged at the steering wheel. either cassidy made this up, she didn't see it, she said tony did tell her that story. i think the new reporting from ryan mitigates pretty strongly in cassidy hutchinson's favor because now we know this story is out there, that people are telling this story and it's being passed from person to person. to me it makes it more likely that cassidy hutchi

i think we'll just have to watch and see i think that cassidy was very believable.ork with her and don't know her. but i think we will have to wait and see. >> did you ever personally witness instances where the then white house counsel, pat cipollone informed the president or others around him they couldn't do something because it was illegal? >> no, i never saw that, pat to his credit was great at having i think those kinds of conversations with the president privately. he often had conversations that it would frustrate me as the press secretary because i needed to be in there to then hopefully tell the press what was going on. but i never saw him say no in terms of you, this will be illegal but i did see him push back often and i did see him say you know during the first impeachment hearings that is a great example, jenna alice wanted to come on board as legal counsel and the president was okay with that and pat said no, i don't want her on the team and we will step back so i have seen those conversations take lace. >> remarkable, it underscores what you said rea

but also, i wore the jacket in honor, cassidy hutchinson, she has got more courage than every man she worked for. where the white jacket in honor. cassidy, young lady, you may be young, but you've got cojones, sister, much more than trump or any of his minions. nicole wallace, thank you my friend -- >> all of -- them >> cannot wait for your special. that is tonight's reidout -- be sure to catch ukraine: answering the call, 7 pm, all in with chris hayes starts right now. , 7 pm, al >> tonight on all in -- >> a person let me know you have your deposition tomorrow. he wants me to let you know he is thinking about you. the mob boss playbook exposed. >> attempting to influence witnesses to testify untruthfully presents very serious concerns. >> tonight, new details about the trump world figure attempting to influence testimony and new reporting from david rohde on the attorney general supervision of the trump case. and the case of potential criminal prosecution drawing closer. then, connecting the dots between new anti gay laws in florida to a right-wing mobs attempt to storm a drag show.

bill cassidy joins us of louisiana now. want to go back to your work with the senator from arizona a number of years ago as you tried to hone benefits for the children of america. after the surprise announcement last night from mr. schumer and what the president will speak on today, telus the common ground you and senator sinema have on taxes and this piece of legislation. sen. cassidy: sinema has been very skeptical of increasing taxes upon business when we might be entering into a recession, and i am not sure entering recession is exact lay the right time to create this and this uncertainty and investment uncertainty. that tends to prolong a recession. so i can't speak for her, but i imagine those might be her thoughts. tom: the issue of taxes, and i know it is a gop idea, which is we all understand the internal revenue service is flat on its back. what is the cassidy prescription to help the irs bring in the fair share from all americans? sen. cassidy: the irs has gotten $500 million for upgrading their technology, and y

what the situation when it came to cassidy?e don't yet know and need to have more reporting on that. >> to be clear, michael, i think this is in your article, if not it was somewhere else, young staffers involved or connected to cases or investigations like this often want their legal bills paid for going back to the clinton investigations in the 1990s where these people actually were angry that clinton world didn't end up paying their legal bills. >> yeah, that's exactly right. and like i mentioned before, i mean, there is a good amount of sympathy among the people around trump for these folks, folks who were recruited into some of these jobs, folks who were brought into some of these jobs and have some expectation that they will be protected and not have to wear the brunt and bear the cost of an investigation into their former boss. >> let's talk about tony ornato, one of our favorite topics today. okay. so tony ornato, former white house deputy chief of staff, he is now in a position sort of like a leadership administrative

abc news has learned that cassidy hutchinson was one of those witnesses subject to intimidation.t want to comment on that. but it's very serious. it really goes to the heart of our legal system. and it's something the committee will certainly be reviewing. >> so you think some of the testimony you received wasn't truthful because people were threatened? >> the way that i would put it is that it gives us a real insight into how people around the former president are operating, and to the extent to which they believe that they can affect the testimony of witnesses before the committee. it's something we take very seriously. and it's something that people should be aware of. it's a very serious issue, and i would imagine the department of justice would be very interested in and would take that very seriously as well. >> our thanks to jonathan. former president trump denies hutchinson's claims. you can catch more of jon's interview with liz cheney on the future of the gop, the potential for criminal referral for trump, and cheney's own presidential ambitions on "this week" sunday. >>

"outfront" next, trump's january 6th outburst, two secret service staffers corroborating parts of cassidy hutchinson's damning testimony, plus, on trial, brittney griner appearing in russian courtroom as prosecutors lay out their case against her. any chance of a fair trial? and it may be one of the toughest fights of a political career, republican congresswoman liz cheney facing off against her trump-backed challenger and her role on the january 6th committee front and center. let's go "outfront." good evening, i'm kate bolduan in for erin burnett, "outfront" tonight, trump's tyrade, seeming to back up part of cassidy cassidy hutchinson's testimony, two secret service staffers saying more than a year, stories have been circulating about trump's behavior before and on january 6th, including how an angry donald trump demanded to go to the capitol with supporters after his speech at the white house and when the secret service said no and trump didn't get his way, said to have berated his security detail, saying something similar to, i'm the effing president of the united states, you can't t

we heard about that from cassidy huthinson. she testified, under oath, about what she said she was told about the incident. >> the president says something to the effect of, i am the president, take me up to the capitol now. to which bobby responded, we have to go back to the west wing. the president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. mr. engel grabbed his arm and said you have to take your hand off the steering wheel, we are going back to the westwind. we are not going to the capitol. mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge towards bobby engel. he motioned towards his clavicles when recounting the story to me. >> was mr. engel in the room as he told you this story. >> he was. >> did mr. engel correct or disagree with any part of the story? >> he did not correct or disagree with any part of the story. >> did mr. engel ever come after that, tell you that what was said was untrue? >> neither told me ever that it was untrue. >> okay. now you have someone who was there. not just her hearin

sources are telling us that is exactly what happened to cassidy hutchinson. three sources telling cnn that hutchinson was one of the witnesses trump world tried to influence, which tells you a whole lot about what they thought about her testimony. right? the committee so concerned about her security that they kept her identity a secret leading up to the hearing. in the wake of her block buster testimony, we may be about to learn a whole lot more with the subpoena for pat cipollone who knows what was going on behind those closed doors at the white house before, during and after the january 6. we are also learning more about the lengths trump world may be willing to go to. liz cheney saying two unnamed witnesses told the committee they heard from people in the former president's orbit who may have been trying to intimidate them. >> what they said to me is as long as i continue to be a team player, they know i'm on the right team. i'm doing the right thing. i'm protecting who i need to protect. you know i'll continue to stay in good graces in trump world. and th

are who made those calls to cassidy hutchinson. and she's described them to them. i think the people on the other end of those calls also know who they are. so we'll see, i think we're going to see a lot more of that in the coming days. >> a lot more, it seems, of this kind of trickle of information coming out as it just did in the last nine minutes as we've been on the air together. luke broadwater, thank you. matt miller, joyce vance, thank you as well. >>> ahead, wnba player brittney griner, the latest on her case. >>> and the battle over abortion, the president meets with a group of democratic governors. north carolina governor roy cooper was one of them, he'll join me. >>> a record setting number of americans are expected to travel this holiday weekend because why not, it's the fourth. what you need to know if you're one of them. we'll be right back. of them. we'lbel right back. like pulsi, electric shocks, sharp, stabbing pains, or an intense burning sensation. what is this nightmare? it's how some people describe... shingles

cassidy hutchinson's testimony tuesday mauvmoved the ball forw. i want to start with the second line of that passage first. what charges, as you listen to cassidy hutchinson, as you're looking at this as a former prosecutor, what charges do you think the former president is most vulnerable to based on the testimony? >> i really think an incitement offense is actually the most easiest to charge and the most plausible right now. there is a statue that is straightforward that says it's a federal offense to incite a riot. you know the former president was there speaking. you also, obviously, many of the people in the crowd ending up attacking the capitol shortly thereafter. the reason there was a lot of skepticism by many legal observers, including myself that charge would result is because there was a bar set by the first amendment that said essentially unless the former president was trying to incite imminent lawless action that would be politically protected speech. i thought miss hutchinson's statement regarding the metal detectors and the former

, with cassidy urging toni to get to the white house asap.early, it goes to they have a relationship, they had some record, and i think it just makes the notion that cassidy would sort of pull this anecdote out of there, that must be harder to believe. that said, i do want to add a word of caution here. we've been reporting the past few days, actually from the secret service spokesperson, that tony and bobby engle are still available to testify. and if they've heard from an informal channel that there was maybe some potential to get that, another private deposition on the books, as they previously promised. but as off at least yesterday. we did not call up on that today. the committee have not formalized a specific date, and given them a final invitation to come and give another deposition before investigators. >> joyce, how about this news that the committee is seriously considering trying to get testimony from donald trump and mike pence? help me out here. i'm a mere mortal. why wouldn't they want to sit down with these two, a year and a ha

then the cassidy hutchinson stuff came out. what you realize from that and other stories that we keep getting is that pat cipollone was central to a lot of stuff. he was around and by the way his testimony may lead for people to think of him being on the right side of history given what he was continue to argue. he's agreed to testify before the committee on friday. i'm assuming that's a product of cassidy hutchinson's testimony. so many references were made to things he said in legal exposure he was worried about. >> i think it's a combination of things. there were weeks of back and forth between the committee and mr. cipollone's lawyers to try to get him into talk on the record. discussions and negotiations about possible accommodations because i think for mr. cipollone some of the information that he has, has legitimate privilege concerns. but a lot of the information he has is clearly not privileged. it was important that he end up testifying before the committee on the record and videotaped so the american people can see i

as english raisins nick cassidy explained.— cassidy explained. greatjob of driving that conversation around sustainability. the announcement of better technology and software technology taking that from track to road has been really impressive. it's advanced a great array of lots of the great two years. i hope through our platform we can raise awareness to the general public of the future and how we can make that change. i think they're doing a greatjob. change. i think they're doing a treat 'ob. w' change. i think they're doing a great job-— change. i think they're doing a ureat'ob. , , ., great job. nick cassidy. his team in vision racing _ great job. nick cassidy. his team in vision racing were _ great job. nick cassidy. his team in vision racing were a _ great job. nick cassidy. his team in vision racing were a partner- great job. nick cassidy. his team in vision racing were a partner of- great job. nick cassidy. his team in vision racing were a partner of 26, l vision racing were a partner of 26, the united nations climate change summit whic

this is more than about just what they're doing to cassidy hutchinson. and the justice department must be taking a look at all of this and the way people ultimately testify. >> you're right and i think it's smart to divide this out into the two separate buckets. one is this witness intimidation bucket. but one is the narrative that cassidy hutchinson tells in her testimony. she's a really interesting witness, particularly when you are talking to the court of public opinion. when you are the january 6 committee, she really casts a broad narrative that gives us more insight into the way the former president behaved around january 6. than anything else we have seen. when you get to doj and you are thinking about prosecutoring a case, a lot of the testimony is hearsay, it puts pressure on the other guys like pat cipollone to come in and testify. it will be awfully interesting to see what they say. >> very much so. under oath. you may not want to lie under oath if you don't want to go to jail. thank you both. >>> up next. what can be done to protect reproduct

hutchinson and i think he is melting down but it's more than just cassidy.ently you just saw text messages come out from brad to katrina pearson, two people that were with donald going back to 2015. right from the very beginning so he sees them talking negative about him, he is nervous that everyone is jumping ship on him and worrying about themselves which they should. i should've done that myself had i done that who knows where i would had been you know come sentencing time. but that's what i believe is going on here. >> witness statement which sources tell cnn was from cassidy hutchinson about the pressure she was feeling from trump's orbit, watch this. >> what they said to me is as long as i continue to be a team player, they know i am on the right team. i'm doing the right thing. i'm protecting i need to protect. you know i will continue to stay in good graces in trump world. and they have reminded me a couple of times that trump does read transcripts. and just keep that in mind as i proceed through my interviews with the committee. i think most america

as we saw when we heard this testimony from cassidy hutchinson. >> i saw mr. out on to west exec that morning, and mr. cipollone said something to the effect of, please make sure we don't go up to the capitol, cassidy. keep in touch with me. we're going to get charged with every crime imaginable if we make that movement happen. >> aaron blake goes on to compare cipollone's testimony to that of former attorney general bill barr, writing this, "barr has already proved a significant witness because of his own misgivings and willingness to testify about them. but unlike barr, who resigned in late december 2020, cipollone was still around for many of the key late events, and his willingness to shed light upon them could turn the guy whose big entry into the public's consciousness was to defend trump to the hilt, into a very significant witness against trump." joining our conversation, former u.s. attorney barbara mcquade, who's now a university of michigan law professor, ben rhodes is back, former deputy national security advisor to president obama, and jackie alem

the fbi interviews cassidy hawkinson. they investigate to arbery everything she says. you put all of that information in an affidavit in support of an arrest warrant. you present it to a federal judge, and you look up the person or people who are tampering with witnesses because that is interfering with the integrity of this investigation. that is what the fbi should be doing right now. >> cynthia, what about mark meadows and all this, what is his possible legal exposure post hutchinson testimony. mark meadows at this point should just be taking the fifth amendment. mark meadows has a huge problem. because the committee knows who is supposedly this intermediary, who mark meadows had called her and witness tempered. there's any way that they can prove through the intermediary, or if he made any of the other calls that were tempering, and he has a huge problem, witnessed tempering is a 20-year phony. as well, it should be, because it is so fundamental to our justice. i would say, for me, i would have 1 million questions, but one of my million questions is who is this int

so, cassidy herself i think is lying low. she really wants to let her testimony stand because the initial aftermath -- of course there were these discrepancies. and even as the days have played out, as your reporting showed, there's been more corroboration of everything she said. i stand by what she said, she stands by it, the committee does. and i think it's only a matter of time that will come out to show she was telling the god's honest truth. to your question, i do think it's very likely more witnesses will come forward. i don't have special knowledge of it, but anecdotally, i've had even mid level and more junior level people come to me and say if i can help, i don't know if i know something, it's not a bombshell like cassidy. but people i thought were squarely in trump world who said, no, this woman did something brave, they exposed what we feared was happening, and they want to be on the right side of the history. it's a testimony to how much her testimony is breaking through with people honestly. >> we talked about th

he was going to refute what cassidy said. and yet, to the best of my knowledge, i haven't heard anything. what's going on with this guy? >> how lucky that i made a phone call in my car before i came here to my kitchen about that. my understanding is that the department of homeland security which is the parent agency for the secret service. the secret service is housed in the department of homeland security. their top lawyers have been negotiating with the committee about how tony ornado bobby engle ahead of the presidents detail a witness to what happened in the suburban that day. when there was an alleged assault on a secret service agent. and the limo driver that was willing to drive the suburban. they are negotiating with the committee staff about what's the terms for having them come in and answer questions about that alleged altercation. the alleged lunge for the steering wheel that cassidy said tony ornato described to her upon his return. he was very unsettled and unnerved. i have to tell you with drool dripping, this

see the video for yourself and the january 6 committee says new witnesses are coming forward after cassidy hutchinson testimony are coming forward and now ruling out a criminal referral for former president trump. >>> president biden is kicking off the holiday with a tweet saying the country's best days lie ahead but he's facing a handle of challenges. jeremy diamond joins me from the white house. what is on the president's agenda today? >> reporter: president biden is still at camp david this morning but he will be returning to the white house to host military families for a bar be becue and celebration. the president saying the fourth of july is a sacred holiday, sacred day in our country. make no mistake, our best days still lie ahead. at the same time president biden is dealing with messaging on the current state of the country and the current state of the economy with high inflation and high gas prices which many americans are being reminded this weekend as they hit the roads for the fourth of july weekend. the president oaf the weekend taking to twitter to encourage and push gas stat

cassidy testified that mr. trump knew the mob was armed, wanted to go to the capitol with them even agreed that vice president mike pence deserved to be president mike pence deserved to be hang. >> knives and guns and rifles and body armor >> we had three men walking down >> io overheard the president says, i don't care if they are weapons. >> presi >> president trump was aware they were wearing body armor >> we'll walk down to the capitol. >> the president says to me, i am the effin' president, take me up to the capitol now. bobby responded, sir, we have to go back to the west wing the president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel, mr. angle, grabbed his arm, sir, you need to take your hands off the steering wheel we are going back to the west wing, we are not going to the capitol. mr. trump used his hand to lounge at bobby angle. >> i remember mark saying we need to do something more, they literally calling the vice president to be effin' hung. mark responded, you heard i

they felt that cassidy hutchison had more corroboration with what she had to say. so i expect to hear a lot more about this. we may even have some more witnesses come forward and testify publicly about these events. but the select committee having interviewed all the people involved a different points didn't feel that cassidy hutchinson was the most credible. and felt comfortable putting her out there publicly for the whole world to see. >> there are signs that pets baloney may agree to a transcribed interview, limited to specific topics. can you talk us through the mechanics of a transcribed interview and how much that could impact than what he has to offer the committee? >> i think because of some genuine privileges that he may still have, attorney client privilege, even executive privilege, there are some areas that he probably cannot talk about. but there are plenty of other areas he can. of course, he is not donald trump demands lawyer, he's the lawyer of the president united states. to the extent that those positions diverge, his legal skills were being repre

it is fully underway now with cassidy hutchinson. particularly by right-wing media.. she wasn't really in the room, she doesn't know if she is talking about, that is the kind of stuff we have heard. that's the stuff we have heard from trump world and media organizations. that comment, every time we have a witness against somebody who is important, the first thing that they say, this is very common for donald trump to say, they were not in on it. they did not know what they are talking about. y were not in on it. >> sure, every moss says that your key witness against them is just the coffee girl. originally the coffee boy. i was reflecting on this this morning. we watched him say that i hardly knew that person. and you might scratch your head in wonder, that we are six years in on this. we have done it every time someone comes forward with the truth about his behavior and a number of different sorts of venues. it becomes less and less convincing. ultimately, the vigor with which they have gone after her suggest that they are very concerned about her testimony. >> july

droid cassidy of rbc capital markets. -- gerard cassidy of rbc capital markets.om: let's go to the press conferences. they have two press conferences, both equally important. jonathan: earnings calls. tom: excuse me. but they are going to be more interesting than normal is jonathan: how i would put it. jonathan:--how i would put it. jonathan: but that last question is what we want to see answered, it's good having the chat about the hurricane on the rise in, we want to know what's going on with the business, lending, and we have heard from banks repeatedly that is decent. lisa: and how to expand in lending at a time when you are worried about consumer credit or corporate credit in the recession? how do you expand the revenue basis of the nuts and bolts of what you do if you do not have that faith that the hurricane is coming? if the indication that investment banking and dealmaking will be slower, trading will try to plug some of that gap, but loan creation is my question. how much can they capitalize on higher rates, it is not economic for them considering the f

it seems in recent weeks since cassidy's testimony, they've had more people coming forward. we can be the first to report to you that thursday's scheduled prime minister hearing, although it was never announced, is now being rescheduled. >> that is a big change indeed. they must be getting more leads to follow up. >>> and called out. the father of the parkland massacre victim interrupting the president at the white house. his reaction to the president while the president was celebrating the recent gun safety law. e thmoderate-to-seve, or atopic dermatitis under control? hide my skin? not me. because dupixent targets a root cause of eczema, e presiden heal yor skin from within, keeping you one step ahead of it. hide my skin? not me. and for kids ages 6 months and up that means clearer skin, and noticeably less itch. with dupixent, you can change how their skin looks and feels. and that's the kind of change you notice. hide my skin? not me. serious allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. tell your doctor about new or worsening eye problems such as eye pain or vision c

tell us more about it. >> she was best friends with cassidy. she's a little bit oerld than her but they were in the same generation of trump staffers in the white house. alyssa resigned in december of 2020 in disgust because she saw was trump was doing post-election and stayed in touch with cassidy. i think not so much as cassidy became a witness in these hearings and had a trump affiliated lawyer. her lawyer was the ethics lawyer in the trump white house. she did three sessions with that lawyer behind closed doors with the committee. we have seep a wn a lot of vide and she broke with the lawyer. she fired him and got someone different. alyssa was very instrumental in that period in going back to liz cheney, and saying, cassidy has more she wants to tell you all and i think that led to the fourth interview and the dramatic hearing. >> the dramatic surprise hearing. sdpl sdplp. >> i think most of what we saw many that hearing of cassidy's personal testimony that day which was some of the new, more dramatic pieces of information, that was the new

one witness they're concerned about is cassidy hutchinson. witness intimidation is a serious focus. cnn learned that the examples of possible witness intimidation on tuesday directed at the witness cassidy hutchinson. >> you will do the right thing when you go in for your deposition. i think most americans know that atfrlting to influence witnesses to testify untruthfully presents serious searches. >> reporter: sources belief the pressure was applied at the behest after mark meadows. no one from the meadows' camp sought to intimidate or shape the conversations with the committee. he said in a statement to cnn. the accusations come when "the new york times" reports that organizations close to donald trump helping to pay for the legal fees. it's a practice not uncommon or illegal but according to the former senior investigator it raises potential problems. >> it does run the risk to be less cooperative than they would be if they had attorneys advising them paid by the client. in other words, the witness themselves. >> reporter: also still working with secret service to schedule anothe

he adds it, cassidy hutchinson can't even hear it. do you think they have the answer to how the organizer knew just what trump was going to do? >> when lynndal says this and she's expecting trump to say that also, and the question is how does that get from donald trump's spontaneously saying it to them knowing about it? was there a phone call? are there white house logs that show those conversations? i don't know if we're going to hear recordings of those conversations to get those concrete details, but i just wonder if we've just lowered the bar for donald trump over the years about what his intent is. i've covered him now since 2015, and it seems pretty clear there's causal relation between what he says and what people do. i saw it on the campaign trail, at the rallies, punch him in the face. that happened. we saw it during his years in the white house. we see it with the insurrection. one plus one equals two. donald trump says go to the capitol. we'll be wild. i know these people have weapons. i don't care. they're not out to get m

for example, some of cassidy hutchinson's testimony was hearsay.s hearsay. that's not true, but a small portion, 10%, 15%, was hearsay that you couldn't testify to in a court. for example, when she told the story about walking into the room, there's ketchup on the wall, that's fine. but when she testified the staffer said, well, donald trump threw his dish against the wall when he heard the news about bill barr, that part's hearsay. she could not testify to that. the staffer could, however. and remember, if there's ever a day where cassidy hutchinson testifies in a trial, she will be subject to cross-examination. so attorneys for donald trump or whoever the defendant is will have a chance to challenge her credibility. i think she'll hold up, but it never comes out as cleanly after cross-examination. >> yeah, it's a higher bar. and also, we're on a collision course with the politics of it all. cnn is reporting that trump is weighing an early launch to his 2024 campaign and it could come as soon as this summer. the hearings are going on. if he's a ca

cassidy says yes. did they ever say it wasn't true? cassidy says no. liz cheney said it again in an interview with abc's jon karl that aired yesterday. what do you make of what this role has done or if it has done anything to change liz cheney as a politician? >> that's a good question. she's in the rare spot of being in a position where hughing to her principles on a very basic matter is viewed conventionally as a political death knell and the limited polling that we have about the republican primary in wyoming does not contain any good news for cheney. there's no question about that, but she distinguishes herself from a host of other anti-trump republicans by taking this bet that standing on the principles she's committed to might be good politics. we've seen many republicans who have criticized the president instead of taking that bet just choosing to retire rather than facing defeat, and it's unusual to see someone put herself out there and go for it even though the imperical data suggests that politically it's unlikely to work. taking that step an

caroline edwards, cassidy hutchinson and liz cheney. i think that this hearing has been choreographed exceptionally well for the attention span of the average american in 2022. i see a case being developed of the criminal charges that danny laid out. plus, given aid and comfort to an insurrection, what happened on january 6th was the very definition of an insurrection. i'm concerned as the former federal prosecutor in me that gets you a lot of cred these days on television, i'm concerned that the committee may have overreached on the incident in the vehicle. it was vivid, it was collateral to this central charge. and it was secondhand hearsay. >> it's funny you say that. the fact that the former president is obsessing over the incident and nothing else speaks volumes. take a listen to how he's characterizing this. >> this lady yesterday, there's something wrong with her. is there something wrong? she said i jumped from a car and i started strangling -- think of this, i started strangling a secret service agent? >> right. >> who i know v

in this incredible testimony this past week from cassidy hutchinson, the former trump white house aidechief of staff to mark meadows, she testified she heard conversations inside the white house about this far right group and another one called the oath keepers. is there corroborating evidence to show that there was communication between those militias and the white house? >> i don't want to get too far ahead of what we intend to present in our next hearings, but our very next hearing will be -- who was participating, how it was organized including the participation of these white nationalist groups like the proud boys, the 3%ers and others. we'll presenting all the information we have. answer all the questions we've and continue our investigation into precisely what you're describing. >> hutchinson said rudy giuliani was someone she personally heard talking about them. >> this is one of the reasons that we had interest in his testimony and interest in the testimony of others. we obviously want to probe any connection between these dangerous groups and the white house. i think we've go

did they happen the way cassidy hutchinson says they did? and when we refer to being charged with every crime imagine naebl, what crimes was he imagining that donald trump and the staff could be charged with. and while pat cipollone will not be testifying publicly we learned about another witness who will be. the trump white house deputy press secretary sara matthews has been seened to testify publicly as soon as next week. she resigned from the white house, the night of january 6th. last week, she publicly defended cassidy hutchinson against attacks from trump allies. matthews has already given a recorded deposition to the committee and the person who led her questioning was this man, john wood, a former united states attorney, brought on as a senior investigative counsel for the january 6th investigation, and he was questioning witnesses at a hearing last month. mr. wood led the investigation's gold team which examined trump's involvement in the capitol attack itself. all of which makes him someone with unique insight into what the investi

nbc news confirming cassidy hutchinson was one of the witnesses contacted by trump. in an apparent effort to influence her january six testimony. new details about who urged her to, quote, do the right thing. and whether this is a clear case of witness tampering. msnbc legal analyst barbara mcquade is standing by. plus, liberals still reeling from the supreme court's stunning decisions from this term. we will put into context just how devastating it was for certain rights, some of which originated with thomas jefferson. and later, florida schools rolling out lgbtq restrictions as the states don't say gay law takes effect. it's impact already being felt. all of, that and more is coming up. and they're good saturday morning to. you i am katie phang. if you are one of the millions of people flying or hitting the roads this holiday weekend, pack your patience. sky high gas prices, canceled flights, and picketing pilots are just a few of the travel woes americans are facing ahead of their vacations. -- it's live from reagan national airport with what we can expect. gary?

also, new today in the january 6th investigation, nbc news confirming reports a catch cassidy hutchisonformer aide to mark meadows, was the recipient of a message the committee revealed this week, as evidence of possible witness tampering. of which urging her to quote, do the right thing, ahead of her deposition. new reaction just a short time ago from how congressman mel des moines. >> i have worked in law enforcement enforcement, but i also worked with mark meadows. and we worked on the oversight committee, isn't that interesting? i tell you, but if i was still police detective, i would be very interested in that text message that she received from someone who was pretty much buried in this investigation. >> plus, democracy advocates and election officials are sounding the alarm after the supreme court agreed to take up the north carolina redistricting case. it will happen next storm, and it could give state legislatures jurors power over federal elections. that decision, could have major locations in 2024. joining us now, msnbc's more baron who's out the white house, and i wrap this

i think the corroboration of cassidy and cipollone, what kind of shot would we call it?d be an important moment in the hearings, and it seems to me that corroboration will begin to connect the dots to hold trump responsible. so this is really important on a number of different levels, nicole and again, attorney/client privilege doesn't enter here because he'll be corroborating something we've already heard. >> jackie, i want to ask you about the next public hearing. we are under the understanding that the deputy white house press secretary who i believe we've already seen some of her taped depositions in terms of what was going on in the press offers when donald trump supporters were chanting "hang mike pence." it is that moment that cassidy is talking about when cipollone said trump needs to do something and meadows says he doesn't want to. talk about what a deputy white house press secretary could help this committee reveal. >> we have not yet confirmed what a hearing sarah matthews will appear in. tuesday's hearing will be focused on the culture of violence on the rig