but who is the source of the story that cassidy hutchinson told?ato is the one she reports said theeds things and now backs away from them means they really have to interview them. i assume he was kind of squirrely, bobbed and weaved and now it's more difficult, but it's a good example of the one-two inch that is the january 6th committee and the department of justice because if they don't have time now and they are not able to make ornato come forward, the doj surely can. unless he's a target, then that's a whole other consideration. but if he's not, they will make him come. there's no funny business with the doj. he will show up and talk. >> when trump has mitigating evidence, he usually tweets it or he's banned from twitter so he puts it wherever he put it is. he does not ep keep it secret for this long. >> he makes it up actually. >> and again, we're talking about this part of the testimony because this tied trump not just to the violence, but to wanting to participate in the violence. what was happening at the capitol where he wanted to go was

because after cassidy hutchinson testified, we heard that seven, one, or maybe several, members of the secret service were gonna come out on the record, under oath, and refute what she said in her testimony. that never actually happened. how significant is that, right? they put it out there in the conservative media either, but nobody ever said in front of the judge. >> so, it's a flag, it's a flag that they said they would contradict her testimony but no one ever came forward to testify at the committee. that is one of the reasons they will be so interested in going through these new communications that they have. and, you know, cassidy hutchinson's testimony, she was telling congress that facts and stories that had been related to her. so, she wasn't in essence saying this is the truth. she was saying this is what i was told and here is who said it to me. it will be deeply interesting to go back to those people's communications and see what their communications look like on january 6th, and whether they would back that up, whether there appears to be maybe some propping up of the sto

house committee investigating the capitol attack showed handwritten notes from ex-trump aide cassidy hutchinsoning yesterday's hearing, former president trump attacked hutchinson on his truth social platform and said, quote, "bad handwriting, that of a wacko hers?" yours looks like the results of a lie detector test. [ laughter ] "sir, can you name all the state capitals?" "yes." [ laughter ] in a new interview, fox news host brian kilmeade criticized former president trump and said that he became unhinged following the 2020 election. you know what that means the "fox and friends" are going to need a longer couch [ laughter ] that's right, host brian kilmeade said that former president trump became unhinged following the 2020 election and added, quote, "i believe from the time when the election results came in until january 6th is the worst moment of donald trump's political career." and it's never a good sign when your worst moment lasted three months [ light laughter ] according to a new report, political strategists believe that the upcoming presidential primary may push republican candidate

i want to play so our viewers can remember some of what cassidy hutchinson said in her testimony about what mark meadows was doing. listen. >> i remember pat saying something to the effect of, mark, we need to do something more, they are literally calling for the vice president to be effing hunk. and mark had responded something to the effect of, you heard him path, he thinks mike deserves it, he doesn't think they are doing anything wrong. to what pat said something, this is ethan crazy, we need to be doing something more. >> would that have been the kind of thing that the investigates press them about? >> all without question. without question. they are going to want to know everything that mark meadows saw and heard and conversations he was involved in. his impressions of what was happening in and around the white house and the people who are coming to visit and speak to. and talk with the president. now to be clear, many of those questions he will likely it declined to answer as a result of or he will claim executive privilege. and that is fine, but you have to show up. a claim tha

so, and then of course, he sat on his couch going through his cell phone while cassidy hutchinson beggede with trump and call off the mob. he is potentially the most dangerous witness there could be, and for that reason, trump is probably not sleeping all that well. >> you mentioned cassidy hutchinson, because mark meadows became a key point of interest during the bombshell interview by cassidy. this is some of what she said. >> i remember something -- pat saying something to the effect of, mark, we need to do something more. they are literally calling for the vice president to be home. marquette responded something to the effect of, you heard it , pat, he thinks mike deserves it, he does not think that they are doing anything wrong. to which pat said something, this is effing crazy, we need to be doing something more. >> whether it's the former president state of mind or his intentions ungenerous excess, meadows is the only one that really can fill out, to get the big picture -- >> meadows was there at his side for all of this, and i think in trump's case, this may be a case of be caref

snl cassidy hutchinson said that would be a bad look. call. what happened in those meetings? was it simply we are going to have a show of support on the ellipse and share our views about this election or did it go further than that? it did it go to look, we know some people are going to breach the capitol? remember there's also that testimony that members of the oath keepers and proud boys did not go to the ellipse, they went directly to the capitol. was the idea they're going to open the doors and others will follow it in so that that certification could stop? i think that you have to go in with an open mind, without presupposing the conclusion, but there are many unanswered questions about how all of it took place and some real hints that there was planning to breach the capitol and halt that certification. so i think all of these people who were involved in that planning should be nervous if their role was anything other than a protest protected by the first amendment. >> yeah. and the subpoena also reportedly says they're interested

so for instance just to take an example on one side of the equation there when cassidy hutchinson saida means that when she was told this, they did not accurately recount what happened. conversely if they had been representing that something didn't happen but they are on contemporaneous operation, i think that's a lot of people suspicion when they heard that certain peoples records that disappeared. of course, your eyebrows go up. so, it will really depend on what the facts are. >> andrew weizmann, former fbi counsel for a senior member of the mueller probe. thanks as always for your expertise tonight and you. >> we have one more story to get to tonight. it's one that could have major repercussions all across this country. stay with us. >> >> that sets strict quality and purity standards. nature made. the number one pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. >> tech: at safelite, we take care of vehicles with the latest technology. the number one pharmacist recommended we can replace your windshield ...and recalibrate your safety system. >> customer: and they recycled my old

remember, the emergency hearing they held over the summer, the last-minute one, was when cassidy hutchinsonand testified publicly, and help fill a lot of blacks and investigation so far. it doesn't seem there's anything on schedule for now. remember, congress goes on break again on october. numbers go back home to campaign for reelection. so, at the very least, we know they have a final report coming before the end of the year. and there will likely be some kind of hesitation or hearing, until we have those findings, so, once this final argument is laid out for the january six committee, but that's just for the time being. >> you also wonder if there will be some kind of interim document issued before that final report, which many people and state as well. nicholas wu, asha rangappa, thank you both, appreciate. >> still to come, ron desantis cannot escape his own human trafficking scandal. >> you are fleeing a communist regime in venezuela. you come here, and then somebody tricks you, somebody is using florida taxpayer money to get these migrants from texas to massachusetts. it's not just i

cassidy hutchinson, his former aide under the trump administration, talks about one episode in which mark meadows was talking to the former white house counsel on january 6th. it gives a window into how important he is and what he can provide to investigators. here is what she said. >> i remember pat saying something to the effect of, mark, we need to do something more, they're literally calling for the vice president to be f'ing hung. mark responded something to the effect of, you heard him, pat, he thinks mike deserves it, he doesn't think they're doing anything wrong. to which pat said something, this is f'ing crazy, we need to be doing something more. >> that was just one of many moments on january 6th where mark meadows could provide critical perspective. we should also note his top deputy in the white house, another deputy besides cassidy hutchinson, ben williamson was also issued a subpoena as well. >> pamela brown, thank you so much. joining us to talk big picture here as they deal with the special master in the mar-a-lago docs case, ken feinberg, an attorney who served as sp

it makes me think of cassidy hutchinson. tony arenado has retired from the secret service. to him? i'm trying to get clarity. have you talked to -- >> have i personally talked to him? >> as a committee. >> we have interviewed him already. i think that's been publically revealed. >> yes. since hutchinson's testimony? >> no. we intend to talk to him again in the near future. >> the republican nominee for governor in pennsylvania, he has just sued your committee recently with his legal team arguing that because kevin mccarthy did not appoint any republicans on that committee, that the republicans that are on the committee were chosen by nancy pelosi, it has an improper makeup, so he should not be compelled to talk with your committee. what's your response? >> it's frivolous. that same issue has been raised by numerous others. every court has said that's incorrect. i think it's a delay tactic on the candidate's part. there's things that we need to know about what he did. we hope to hear from him. i hope that the court acts promptly. this is not new ground. it's been decided ove

i want to start by talking about cassidy hutchinson.what did you make of today's testimony and did you relate at all to what seemed to be her experience up there? i thought cassidy was unbelievable today. and i was obviously proud of her. on the one hand, it was very relevant, of course, to the themes in the book. a lot of people that i interviewed, all my old friends and colleagues who, you know, decided to not do the kind of that cassidy did today. to me, frankly, i think the most striking thing in in thinking about this in the context of what i've been working on for the last year, is all of these grown men and women, all these grown ups, important jobs that were supposed to be in service to the public who have kids. they're supposed to be setting an example for, you know, who who got into this business. i assume most of them, because they wanted to make a difference just sitting the sidelines angling for their next job. and leaving a 26 year old woman to hang out to dry in front of the whole country. i just i couldn't help thinking

do the message back up the story that cassidy hutchinson said that she was told there was a violent confrontationecret service detail in the presidential vehicle? >> i foul her enormously credible and courageous as a witness. i have yet to see anything that has dissueded me from that view. i remain very confident of her testimony, what she said, and, yes, i do have questions about the testimony of others and whether they showed the same candor. we are still going through the records, because they are voluminous. i will say they're not a substitute for having the text message that were apparently erased from those devices. we are still investigating how that came about and why that came about. i hope and believe the justice department on that issue is also looking at whether laws were broken in the discretion of that evidence. we do have a mountain of information that we need to go through, but i think it's fair to say it won't be a complete substitute for some of the most important evidence, which would have been the information on those phones. >> i do want to get your reaction to something dona

. -- you know, if cassidy hutchinson said that on january 5th, she heard donald trump tell mark meadows to call roger stone, and mike flynn. so, if you have roger stone involved with the oath keepers, and communicating with them, that is a connective tissue. and finally, i'd say donald trump is smart to rely on water stone, as that intermediary, because he knows he does not slip. he's a guy who is willing to, you know, go to trial, be convicted, and he keeps the oath of omerta. if you need somebody to pull this, of roger stone is the go-to guy. >> he's also believed to be the architect behind stop the steal. luke, how helpful do you believe this information about stone can be? >> right, well the january 6th community sense some other top investigators to denmark to get this footage. it's about 170 hours of documentary footage, of roger stone's actions. and we do expect some of it to be played wednesday, i know the filmmakers are coming down from new york for the hearing. as andrew rightly points out, roger stone had oath keepers as bodyguards as january six, several of the oath keepers

you saw with cassidy hutchinson that she had to change lawyers because of that because she didn't feel comfortable with the lawyer that they had provided her and were paying for. so they did that and they were on top of that and they're on top of this whole issue of trying to keep people in line by having them assert privilege. you departmidn't see the januar committee actually zero in on that because they have a much more limited life span in the sense they're assuming they could well be out of business by the end of the year because of the election and they don't want to let these guys run the clock so they let people like cipollone come in and testify to certain things and he refused to testify to others, particularly conversations with donald trump. but the d.o.j. doesn't have that issue. and they've got the ability to immediately go before the primary judge in the district of columbia, before the chief judge and press these issues. i don't see them winning on any of them. these are all losers. >> listen, scott, nobody knows where this is all going to end up, these legal blows for

the january 6th committee received text messages sent during, and following the meeting by cassidy hutchinsonre the committee hearing in june describing the meeting as unhinged. she also snapped this photograph of mark meadows escorting rudy giuliani from the white house to make sure he did not get back into the mansion. you tweeted, quote, somehow the committee testimony featured live underplay how crazy that december 18th meeting was. how was it an underplay? >> because donald trump faded into the background as this was all being described. one of the ways in which donald trump has escaped a lot of accountability over time is he gets people fighting with each other, and that's what people focus on. he considered extreme, really unprecedented actions. now, he didn't take them, but he was unwilling to foreclose options until the last possible second no matter how extreme and -- and potentially dangerous they were. >> i remember talking to you after that meeting, and you were shaking. >> i was. and it was, frankly -- it took a little bit to process exactly what had happened. but i remember get

. >> john, you know, mark meadows came up over and over again in cassidy hutchinson's testimony. let's play some of the key moments for you guys. >> marcus still sitting on his phone, i remember glad to get him, he still sitting on his phone. and i remember pat saying to him, substitute effective, the rioters have gone to the capital, mark. we need to go down and see the president now. and mark looked up at him and said, he doesn't want to do anything, pat. and pat said something to the effect of, and very clearly, said this to mark. something to the effect of, mark, something needs to be done, or people are going to be to die in blood's gonna be on your effing hands. >> so, questions, meadows needs to answer? >> i think he'll ultimately answer a lot of questions. the question to me, don, is will he invoke the fifth amendment. i think he's got tremendous exposure himself. he's in the middle of all this. some of these certainly walk like and quack like a conspiracy. so, this raises the question of how much vulnerability he feels. i think there's a good chance, if anybody they're g

here's what cassidy hutchinson had to say, she was mark meadows' former aide. >> i remember pat saying something to the effect of mark, we need to do something more. they're literally calling for the vice president to be hung. mark responded, you heard it, pat, he thinks mike deserves it, he doesn't think they're doing anything wrong. to which pat said this is crazy we need to do more. >> that was a window into what mark meadows could talk about. he could provide critical testimony into what was going on in donald trump's state of mind. he was a high ranking official as the chief of staff. right now the doj is working through executive privilege issues. we know they're doing it with other officials from trump's administration. that could explain why more hasn't happened in terms of testimony. >> elliott weigh in on the significance here because meadows had not been fully cooperative with the subpoena from the january 6th committee. >> i think people aren't as afraid of congress as they are the justice department. not all compliance is created equal. it's hard to know what he has provid

we also know from witness testimony, and to cassidy hutchinson as well, the counsel's office specificallythat the ultimate elector scheme that trump and his allies were pushing was not legally sound. that scheme, of course, played a key role in trump and john eastman and rudy giuliani really firing up, revving up the crowd that day by holding out this nonsensical hope that there might still be one way to get congress to overturn the outcome of the election. we -- according to hutchinson's testimony cipollone's view very much was that just wasn't a thing that was going to happen. it wasn't a thing that was going to work. it wasn't lawful. she was pretty explicit about that, about the way that counsel's office felt on that particular point. i would -- look, it's always possible for people to plead the fifth in any sort of setting such as this. i would be really, really shocked if pat cipollone or patrick philbin did that on behalf of president trump particularly given that they both have already cooperated with the select committee as well and according to reporting, have also spoken to the

. >> it doesn't hurt that after cassidy hutchinson, mr.is the best witness we've seen, laced with plenty of f-bombs and you have to be kidding me, he almost looked at the clowns around trump including trump with the same disgust that normal people do. talk about the power of eric herschmann as a witness. >> we've seen it. he's credible. he's obviously very reliable, because his information is being krob ra krob rated. and he is a powerful witness, because he served donald trump. and he had his lines he drew with january 6th, saying this is over the limit. and we know from maggie's reporting, her piece about him is that he said in respect to the current crew that are surrounding trump, he had -- he didn't take their bull, because they were trying to constrain his testimony before the grand jury and he said, you guys are off-base with this, i'm not going to be put between you and the justice department. >> right, right. >> and i thought that was very important, because it means he's corroborating with the justice department when they come ca

there is a need to know about some of these things, we know from past reporting that cassidy hutchinson her testimony was closely held by vice chair liz hany. she did not want people have that, she'd have not even what people in the committee to have a. so it's no surprise that the committees not being forthcoming with information beyond its walls, and it's even swallowing it information within its walls. >> that's a great point katie benner thank you very much. still to come, the congressional republican candidate who paid the problems for consulting services. we'll have a guest with in the studio to talk about the far-right ahead. far-right ahead. 80% of couples sleep too hot or too cold. because quality sleep is vital, the sleep number 360 smart bed is temperature balancing, so you both stay cool. our smart sleepers get 28 minutes more restful sleep per night. save 40% on the sleep number 360 special edition smart bed.now only $1499. only for a limited time. i have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now, there's skyrizi. with skyrizi, 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at

and we know from cassidy hutchinson's testimony, he was there. he was observing. and i'm sure we're going to talk about executive privilege several times in this segment. but there's a question of whether cipollone might assert some claim of executive privilege. but in this context, it doesn't go very far. there is supreme court precedent in u.s. v. nixon that the criminal justice process is able to pierce that veil, particularly when the testimony or when the evidence will reveal criminal activity. so, you know, we'll see how much -- i think this could really move the ball for the department of justice. >> you bring up executive privilege there. that, of course, an issue of contention in the separate doj probe of the president's handling of highly classified information. and there was a notable moment that our reporter cara ski nell from court highlighted yesterday where the judge said in so many words, i'm not sure it is settled law that a former president does not have claims to executive privilege. how significant was that in your view? >> i think it was reall

these emails and we have all this other testimony about what happened at the white house and cassidy hutchinsont cipollone, and all these people have testified about what happened at the white house. we have a very good picture thanks to the january 6th committee about what happened that day. >> one of the groups, many of whose members have been indicted for seditious conspiracy that day, are the oath keepers. far right paramilitary group. the anti-defamation league has published an analysis of the 38,000 names on the membership list for the oath keepers. the adl reports a review of the list reveals while there are many members of law enforcement, military, and first responders, there are also elected officials, government employees, teachers, religious figures, and businessmen among others. i mean, i'm sure that there are plenty of people out there who would say, yes, this is extremism has been mainstream for long time. we're just now waking up to it. what do you think? >> it is a problem. the fact of the matter is, it's not just -- i mean, it's hitting main street america, this kind of extrem

is a need to know about some of these things, we know from past reporting that for example, cassidy hutchinsonestimony was closely held by vice chair liz cheney. she did not want people have that, she'd have not even what people in the committee to have that. so it's no surprise that the committees not being forthcoming with information beyond its walls, and it's even swallowing information within its walls. >> that's a great point katie benner thank you very much. still to come, the congressional republican candidate who paid the problems for consulting services. we'll have a guest with in the studio to talk about the far-right ahead. far-right ahead. far-right ahead. when a truck hit my car, far-right ahead. the insurance company wasn't fair. i didn't know what my case was worth. so i called the barnes firm. i was hit by a car and needed help. i called the barnes firm, that was the best call i could've made. i'm rich barnes. it's hard for people to know how much their accident case is worth. let our injury attorneys help you get the best result possible. ♪ the barnes firm injury attorneys ♪

the public hearings, the house select committee held certainly the last couple i think with cassidy hutchinson in particular. i think that left an impact with some people. i think hearing what she was saying did impact people. i think that at least on the margins i think has made some people think twice but look, i was thinking as alicia was talking about how everything that she said about him and this is a critique made by many, many people, made by many, many people to your point prior to the 2016 election, to, and so people tend to vote in their own self-interest and unless they have reason to believe that their self interest is not voting with donald trump, you know, they will continue to support him and i think the reason that all of these house members getting elected is so significant is not just about, you know, the speakers race and not just about the composition of congress. they will be involved in certifying or not certifying the 2020 election and it's important to bear in mind. >> one thing i'll say on that, i don't really understand is it's not a bchoice between biden and trump.

and let's remember, cassidy hutchinson testified in "outfront" of this committee that on january 5th,meadows got in touch with michael flynn. so if i'm the committee would you be aiming to get to the bottom of those calls y. was mark meadows supposed to get in touch with michael flynn and what did they discuss. >> so you talk about the link which is crucial. establishing whether this helps the committee establish a drink link between the white house and the rioters and the violence and add to the mix here what denver riggleman told over the weekend, that there was a call between someone in the white house and a rioter in the middle of all of it. how does it factor potentially into those question marks? >> well it is no surprise that that line on the phone records caught former representative riggleman's eye. it is a nine-second phone call from a white house phone number, out to one of the rioter who has been convicted of going into the capitol. there is a lot we don't know. who was on the white house end of that call. why was it placed, was it intentionally and what was discussed if a

there is a lot of ways -- >> cassidy hutchinson who was not super high up. >> when your prosecutor, youget value, really valuable pieces information and often is connecting dots, dots that sometimes it's the violent formation for a prosecution that comes from somebody like secretary. >> i mean, i just don't, look. i have said this before on the show. you know, the probability, you know, that the odds that independent things happen, right. to get two things to happen independently, right, you know. greater odds, you multiply them. it's like, the odds of just getting out of all of the various traps, whether -- like, staring down the barrel of sentencing on a criminal contempt and is now turning himself into a prosecution in the new york state where donald trump who is facing, like, stolen documents he was in possession of and is also got this january 6th. like, both of them, i would not be feeling particularly confident. >> as a lawyer, we are taught very seldom do we make predictions or strong predictions. but we are talking or in the break and i felt very comfortable saying this. steve

key players we have heard in the committee, pat cipollone, white house counsel, marc short, cassidy hutchinson mind doj has done search warrants on the phones of jeffrey clark and john eastman. what are they looking at? the short answer is everything. the fake electors scheme, the pressure campaign on the justice department, state and local officials on the vice president, and the organization and the fundraising behind the rally. one of the things with subpoenas is you don't know where they're going to take you, i think doj is following all investigative leads. so that is the doj criminal investigation. >> >> now let's go to the classified documents investigation. >> down in mar-a-lago, they have a special master, raymond deery wildly respected across the aisle. doj has filed a notice of appeal. they don't agree with the special master ruling. they have access to classified documents. they don't think they should be reviewing for executive privilege. congress is taking a look at what's happened to them. try to do a damage assessment. that's the latest on the mar-a-lago issue. >> where are we

in that case, let's get to the news during yesterday's hearing, cassidy hutchinson testified

we know from cassidy hutchinson's testimony that she did hear that mark meadows was trying to get in with roger stone, directed by trump to do so the day before january 6th. the committee could start to fill in some of the gaps. >> to the point about the who is roger stone. roger stone goes back to nixon, been a known dirty trickster. we know oath keepers provided security for him on january 5th. he was recorded reciting the proud boys oath, attended the stop the tooel rally. long time associate, one of the people that donald trump frequently turns to. the outside people donald trump turns to when the government can't do what donald trump wants. >> tied together for many, many years. the thing that struck me listening to what roger stone was saying there, when he's trying to claim, oh, these tapes were manipulated. they took it to court, tried to claim everything was inauthentic. there's been reporting about how donald trump didn't want to vacate the white house. and then, of course on january 6th. it rings hollow to me. i'm just posing that in my head. there's another clip from roge

and then, of course, there's this insane story relayed by cassidy hutchinson of trump demanding thatgents take him in his presidential vehicle to the capitol to join the mob in overthrowing the election and when they refused, hutchinson claims trump tried to grab the steering wheel himself and then lunged at one of the agents now, trump loyalists have since disputed that story through anonymous intermediaries, but that's all the more reason why we need to see the secret service text messages from that day. because even if that story is a little bit true, i would love to see what those agents were texting to each other about it "agent stevens, what happened in the car? "potus tried to grab the wheel." "and then what happened? "i hit him with a tranquilizer dart." [ laughter ] "did he fall asleep? "no, it only made him angrier. [ laughter ] "did you try distracting him with a chicken nugget? that usually works." "we activated the emergency nugget protocol but it had no effect backup nugget also failed. "did potus gain control of vehicle? "yes." "did he drive to capitol?" "no, he forgot

. >> according to white house aid cassidy hutchinson, it was his threat of the country invoking the amendmentfrom office was gaining traction. >> think about what might happen in the final 15 days of your presidency if we don't do this? there is talks about invoking the 25th amendment. you need this as cover. >> even then, he still refused to admit the election was over. >> this election is now over. congress has certified the results. i don't want to say the election is over. i just want to say congress has certified the results without saying the election is over, okay? >> that hvideo showed you that even after every single constitutional process had been completed and after over 60 courts had heard his challenges and rejected them, he still refused. he was fundamentally a rejection of the rule of law and again, america can't sustain itself if we have a commander in chief who is at war with the rule of law. >>> coming up. >> i want the american people to look at these hearings and understand how close we came that day to losing that self-governance. >> this is our capitol! >> the battle to

hearing it straight from the mouth of cassidy hutchinson, and what was going on in the white house thatecognition that hearing it from pence, despite the great detail that his top advisers have provided in extensive depositions behind closed doors, but also during these public hearings, we heard from greg jacob, his counsel, who was going back and forth with john eastman before and after the actual attack on the capitol about getting pence to try to intervene and return results of the elections, that hearing it from pence himself is just -- it's a bit of a game changer, i know bennie thompson says it's not, and i don't think it changes the essence of the report, the recommendations and what we're going to see put out, but i do think that if you want maxim pact, max eyeballs on the final hearing and the best way to do that is with these two players themselves. >> i mean, barbara, i'm trying to envision it. mike pence, were you afraid for your life? no. why you were in the basement? mike pence, what did they say to you on the phone? did he call you the p-word? he can't go in, because he c

doj, if not personally, his behavior is under scrutiny by doj which reportedly after seeing cassidy hutchinsontify publicly in the january 6th hearings was particularly understanding the facts around his conduct. what's apparent is that the rule of law is catching up with donald trump and of course, you listen to the bill barr speak and of course, it wasn't going to happen while he was our country's doj, but when you look at what merrick garland is facing now, it is frankly years of donald trump's corruption and criminal conduct now, at least coming under scrutiny. how does that shift the analysis on the right and it seems as though there won't be scrutiny, and transparency and his conduct will not be revealed. >> nicole, it's such an interesting question and such a smart question, because on the one hand, you have republicans who have been watching former president trump sort of deal with all sort of scandal and corruption allegations and all sorts of legal issues and challenges and somehow can get away with it all and that's in some ways endeared them to him because he cannot be taken down a

it was the meeting that mark meadows was supposed to attend on january 5th and cassidy hutchinson said, no, boss, that's not a good idea. given the front-line worker time times -- she was present in the willard war room. criminal exposure for mar-a-lago might lead to important cooperation regarding january 6th. it's not just pete strzok. a far right legal person has suggested -- what do we call him, a legal mind? very conservative. he has said that, yes, trump broke the law, yes, there's a good case, but you might want to wait and charge a president for his role on a deadly insurrection. we have a second not so dotted line between the mar-a-lago behavior and the insurrection. >> if there's not already a proverb that says all paths ultimately cross one another, i think that we need one, because that's inevitably what happens in this investigation. you pulled exactly the right thread here. it's the possibility there are witnesses who have criminal exposure from one facet of the former president's misbehavior, who when confronted with the very real possibility that christina bob now faces

cassidy hutchinson testified in december, talking about ways to overturn the results of a free and faire of the prongs of what we do know is under investigation and scrutiny by doj, that she also touches the fake electors of the eastman plot? >> i think that the justice department might find her someday to be an interesting person to be quick, and i don't think that they have any interest right now in terms of somebody they believe has violated a criminal statute. i would never want to leap to that conclusion, but your point, she does put out a lot of information about why people were doing what they did. so for the justice department, it's a potential liability. the committee, because she touches so much, she is someways extremely important because the committee is going to have to find a report. and she hopes to create that very full narrative. she does complicate things a little bit, but i thinks she believes the election is still up in the air, and they will have to include all of her thoughts. they won't want her to pick and choose when they write this for work. and so that would b

wanted to know more about what the secret service was saying, particularly after we heard cassidy hutchinson'sd that those text messages were missing and the dhs inspector general had launched a criminal probe. really we weren't able to find out the nature of the probe, why it was criminal, what statutes might have been violated and why they launched that in the first place. all we know from the secret service is they believe the text messages were gone as part of the systems upgrade. now we understand there's actually been more probing but it remains a big question about what joseph is doing, and we learned as recently as last friday that some of his own employees think he isn't doing enough and is standing in their way to do thoughtful, independent, and thorough investigationings. -- investigations. so a lot of questions arise into what the investigation entails into the missing texts and whether there might be a chance we could see any of the communications that those agents would have exchanged that day since we know 24 phones are in the possession of the office. >> that was my follow up q

to eugene's point about what changed here, my reporting on this is that the cassidy hutchinson testimonyreally crystallized a lot of thing inside the justice department. before that point, there wasn't a lot of appetite to even move in the direction of indicting a former president. merrick garland, former appeals court judge was not interested in doing that. knowing they were armed and sent them to the capitol, people familiar with garland's thinking, perilous to speculate about that. that's what i'm told. >> nbc's ken dilanian. thank you so much. >>> the senate judiciary committee will investigate claims former president trump tried to force the justice department to prosecute his political enemies and help his allies. "the new york times" was first to report the committee's chairman, democratic senator dick durbin of illinois sent a letter to attorney general garland requesting documents related to accusations made by geoffrey berman in his new book. berman was the u.s. attorney in the southern district of new york for more than half of trump's presidency. the trump appointee claims he

blockbuster testimony from cassidy hutchinson.t really did frame the first half of this summer and they were all trump-ists testifying against donald trump. and then republicans, you have the tragedy of uvalde, you have a few republicans, ten republicans in the senate stepping forward, and helping on gun reform, but overall, the pledge from, message from republican candidates is turn away from uvalde. this has to happen. kids have to happen. they have to be slaughtered down by maniacs if we want to defend the second amendment. that is a sick argument. and obviously a lot of americans don't believe that 18-year-olds with psychiatric problems should be able to purchase weapons of war and they don't want to change that law and they're against 90% of what hearns want with universal background checks and take away a 50-year right of privacy from every woman in america. that is obviously having a huge impact. the extremism of republican legs layers, stories of 10-year-old girls chased out of ohio who were raped because they can't have d

attack scheduled a last-minute public hearing for today with former trump white house aide cassidy hutchinsont was wild. we learned that on january 6th, trump knew the crowd had weapons, that he tried to get the metal detectors removed because "they're not here to hurt me. he got mad at bill barr over lunch and threw a plate full of ketchup at the wall. [ laughter ] and then when he was found out that his limo was not going to the capitol, he lunged for the throat of a secret service agent and tried to grab the steering wheel. [ laughter ] i mean, isn't that unreal? who has ketchup at lunch [ laughter ] president biden on saturday signed the bipartisan gun safety bill into law. this news first reported by a tiny crawl on the bottom of your screen [ laughter ] that's right, president biden signed the law -- signed into law the first major federal gun safety legislation in nearly three decades. three decades! in the time it took you guys to pass one gun law, there's been six batmen [ laughter ] after the supreme court overturned roe vs. wade, former vice president mike pence praised the decisio