again, no one has to have sympathy for me, but that's the type of thing people who might be cassidy hutchison's want to be cassidy hutchinson, stewart considering coming forward, are contending with. and i dealt with this in the 2020 election, and i went to every senior figure that i knew who worked in the trump administration and convince them to go public and campaign against his reelection. universally, i heard one thing from the people who didn't want to do it. and that was fear, it was fear for their families physical security. people are actually worried that the threats are very real. and the only way we can lower the cost of descent is to get more people out there, being public, to show their strength numbers. i actually think that is the most powerful thing cassidy hutchison did this past week. she showed that it's doable and, i talk to committee staff, they know that this may potentially open the door to more people coming forward. and you noted, pat cipollone earlier, hopefully, this not just path to come forward. he was a top white house lawyer and there is no one, i will tell, you

when we think about this, prosecutors said in the aftermath of cassidy hutchison's testimony, that might not be admissible in court. this is not court. they have someone under oath telling the public what she was told. whether or not -- they want more people that can say that. we see the way they have attacked trying to be in these rooms where critical meetings were happening. cipollone, for example, was someone that corroborated pieces of what she said. when it comes to cipollone, when i asked the committee members the role that he plays here, they are quick to point out that they don't think what he says is in conflict with anything that the american public has heard from the witnesses so far. that is important. what it says without saying it is that they still believe that cassidy hutchison's testimony is credible under oath and anyone casting doubt on her isn't casting doubt in the same way, in the public and under oath. >> thank you very much. ali vitali, don't go anywhere. there is a group that remembers january 6th, the lawmakers trapped in the house gallery as the rioters attacke

also, new today in the january 6th investigation, nbc news confirming reports a catch cassidy hutchisonformer aide to mark meadows, was the recipient of a message the committee revealed this week, as evidence of possible witness tampering. of which urging her to quote, do the right thing, ahead of her deposition. new reaction just a short time ago from how congressman mel des moines. >> i have worked in law enforcement enforcement, but i also worked with mark meadows. and we worked on the oversight committee, isn't that interesting? i tell you, but if i was still police detective, i would be very interested in that text message that she received from someone who was pretty much buried in this investigation. >> plus, democracy advocates and election officials are sounding the alarm after the supreme court agreed to take up the north carolina redistricting case. it will happen next storm, and it could give state legislatures jurors power over federal elections. that decision, could have major locations in 2024. joining us now, msnbc's more baron who's out the white house, and i wrap this

>> correct. >> sources are saying people who may have been trying to influence cassidy hutchison was k meadows meaty intermediary. they denied that they would never have anything to do anything from his camp. there are other trying to intimidate, or influence hutchison? >> not for a single second. it is, exactly the same. look at the language bob costello used. look at the language mark meadows used. i guarantee, there's a dozen other people they tried to reach out to with the identical language. these are donald's words the, put into an email form, because, of course, you know he does not have the email. no fingerprints, that's his motto. so, somebody else needs to do it. >> why would he call at this time? if he doesn't usually? >> so, again, he is not sure who is, actually, in his camp anymore. he is, absolutely, petrified, that everyone has turned on him, and the only person, of course, that he can trust, would be himself. but that is the dumbest move he could make. >> i want to get to this. i want to play part of this. i want to play part of your capitol hill testimony, this is 20

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i wouldn't expect anything as explosive as what we heard from cassidy hutchison.to match that. i do think that sarah matthews would be a very credible witness. if you talk about what she saw, and what she heard on january 6th, and why she was so concerned about what happened. >> john, thank you so much for joining us. again, we appreciate it. john wood is the former january six senior investigator. a former united states attorney from missouri's western district. he's a candidate for the united states senate and missouri. well the gop's ongoing democratic crusade against voting got a major boost on friday with one of the states supreme courts making it harder for citizens to conduct their basic civic duty, voting. this is what has been called a slap in the face of democracy itself. n called a n called a slap in the face i mean, "riders" is cool, but "bikers"...is really cool. -seriously? -denied. can we go back to meeting at the rec center? the commute here is brutal. denied. how do we feel about getting a quote to see if we can save with america's number one moto

he spoke to the committee after bombshell testimony from cassidy hutchison last month. >> he said something to the effect of, please make sure we don't go to the capital, cassidy . we are going to get charge with every crime imaginable if we make that movement happen. >> joining us to start our coverage this hour. we have our national security contributor and the leader for the show. you have in exclusive interview with maryland senator jamie raskin. what did he tell you about what we can expect to see today. >> we expect to see the committee focus on how the mob was amassed at the capital that day. they will take us through the timeline starting with this meeting december 18th between trump with outside legal advisors and internal white house lawyers. it was described as one of the craziest meetings of the trump white house. it was described as hot-blooded and intense. from there a december 19th tweet from donald trump himself telling people to be there and be wild on january 6th. that will be the focus of how the tweet percolated through white ring groups and to the actual insurrection on

or the brave young woman, cassidy hutchison talking about what was going on behind the scenes. the conservative media. how conservative is that media? >> well, i think there's a lot of culpable by the media and politicians who think this furthers their political foes. this wasn't just right after the election. i mean, trump was saying that the election would be stolen before the election. now they're setting up the same kind of theme after the next election. you know that if he runs, and i guess he will, and if he loses, i'm sure he would. he will say the election is stolen. they're in the business of trying to change or affect elections for secretaries of state and local election officials. so they're in a position to claim that this was rigged. it is a terrible damage that they're causing to our country. i wish it was just a big lie. politicians lie. it's more than that. it is destructive of the constitutional order. it's destructive of american's faith in their system and their government. in their constitution that's been around since 1789. it's a very, very big deal and it

and while we can and should acknowledge that cassidy hutchison may has missed remembered some detailss wrong, there is nothing to indicate that she was a lying during the hearing. in fact, very few aspects of her testimony are being questioned at all. almost everything that she said over these two hours hasn't been chnged and the few things that have, again, were challenged either by unnamed sources or by serial liars who have refused to take a similar oath to tell the truth. mark meadows denied he asked for a pardon. but why won't mark meadows testify under oath and tell the committee that he did not ask for that pardon? the same with details that tony ornato, the secret service agent turned trump aide, is disputing. why won't he testify under oath? the -- if you are not willing to go as far as testifying as hutchison went, then why should we be taking your denials at face value? that said, here is some more highlights from the january six committee surprise hearing this week with cassidy hutchinson. >> messages and, do you remember mr. giuliani meeting with mr. meadows on january 2n

after bombshell testimony given by cassidy hutchison, a top aide to then chief of staff, mark meadowsom previous hearings, we learned that cipollone warned trump against challenging the 2020 election results and did not want trump to go to the capitol after his incendiary speech on january 6th. but hutchison also told the public that cipollone had to be here of mark meadows that day and wanted him to convince the former president to stop the insurrectionists. according to hutchinson's testimony, cipollone was worried about the legal consequences for anyone on the trump team who showed up on capitol hill as the riot unfolded. >> mr. cipollone, right before i walked out that morning. mr. cipollone said something to the effect of, please make sure we don't go up to the capitol, cassidy, keep in touch with me. we're going to get charged with every crime imaginable if we make that movement happen. >> do you remember which crimes mr. cipollone was concerned with? >> in the days leading up to the six, we had conversations about potentially obstructing justice or defrauding the electoral coun

is that the shocking testimony by top meadows aide cassidy hutchison about how trump got to the capitol for the -- are action appeared to be, corroborated, surprise surprise. details coming. up but it's a good moment to remind you to underline, for you as we all continue to be shocked by the january six committee hearings, are producing, the next coup is underway. the groundwork is being laid. the january 6th committee hearings have shattered the illusion that the attack on the after was a spontaneous spur of the moment outburst at a trump rally. what happened on january 6th was the culmination of weeks of planning, of an intensive, multipronged effort involving fake electors, state legislators, and a pressure campaign on the american vice presidents to overturn the will of the american voters. the attack on the building which is one part of the plot. we kind of zoomed out and now we see the full picture. but after the anti-democratic efforts of trump world around in the 2020 election, republicans are, right now, working on how to read the system to stop democrats from winning, even if

that is how dramatic that particular amendment is. >> we have jacob, mark short, and cassidy hutchison. compare that with the ross washington post, oscars and asking specific question about trump. the tape anything about the direction of this investigation? >> i think those are, in a sense, one in the same development. if you're going to? short, or cassidy hutchison, you're naturally going to be asking them about donald trump and mark meadows. yes, i think there has been a sea change in what we know about doj's investigation. if you think back a month ago, all that we knew was that they had done search warrants on john eastman and jeffrey clark. we knew they serve subpoenas on the electors, but there was nobody inside the white house. there were no state staffers or deputies. now, we know of three. it would surprise me to see some of the other folks who testified the january 6 committee start popping up in the grand jury in the next two days, as well. >> scott, as you know, griffin, who is now a standing contributor, work in the white house. she had resigned before then. she and the ot

and then, course, what you find out from tomorrow's hearing from cassidy hutchison, you will hear the last hearing which will be primetime. you know, what the president did or didn't do while the attack was going on in the capital. that's one of the most damning parts of donald trump. according to cassidy hutchison, possibly others, he did very little to stop what was happening he was one person the roles that could've said something to try and stop the attack. he chose not to. i just sitting here going over some of the names that people are discussing. the giuliani, the sydney powell, michael flip, and what was in that sort of box gallery. to analysis. who would take any of these people seriously? it is amazing that the -- i guess there are telling many wanted to hear. i think about those people on the reputations. >> that's right. and sort of at the conclusion of that meeting. you've got team normal essentially saying to trump, are you going to believe us? team normal that it's telling you that all these conspiracy theorists are out of their mind. and ultimately donald trump sides w

i speak, of course, of white house aide, cassidy hutchison is transformational testimony before, the committee, a few weeks ago, which includes a number of shocking revelations. the one that possibly grab the most headlines was this detail, which he was straightforward about what she knew, and didn't. she recounts, she heard the second hand from, again, that same man. the deputy white house chief of staff for operations, anthony ornato. it was about trump's conduct, immediately after the ellipse rally, after he sent that armed crowd to march on the capitol. >> so, as the president got into the vehicle with bobby, he thought that they were going up to the capitol, and when bobby had relayed to him, we are not, you do not have the assets to do it, it is not secure, we are going back to the west wing. the president had very strong, very angry response to that says. tony described him as being irate. the president said something to the effect of, i am the effing president, take me to the capitol now. to which bobby responded, sir, we need to go back to the west wing. hawaii the president

like also stay tuned, when we re-air tuesday's hearing with testimony from cassidy hutchison. tonight at 6 pm eastern, on msnbc. we will be right back. we will be right back. at begins tonight at 6 p what is this nightmare? it's how some people describe... shingles. a painful, blistering rash that could interrupt your life for weeks. eastern, o if you're 50 years or older ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingles. we will be right back. new video from the ukrainian government claims to show russian aircraft dropping explosives on snake island yesterday. this, after russia said it retreated from the island on humanitarian grounds. russia is launching a new bus service from crimea to newly seized cities in ukraine. those buses have that c branding that you've seen before on russian military vehicles. nbc's aly arabi joins me now from kyiv with the latest. what's your put on the ground tell you? ali >> hey cory. well fighting continues to rage across the country decor civilians are paying a very high price for that. you mentioned the apartment building in the odessa region. 21

did they happen the way cassidy hutchison says they did? and when we refer to being charged with every crime imaginable, what crimes was he imagining that they or the trump administration or donald trump or or his staff could be charged with? and while pat cipollone will not be testifying publicly, we've learned about another witness that will be. cnn reports that the trump white house deputy press secretary sarah matthews, this woman, has been subpoenaed to testify publicly as soon as next week. she resigned from the white house the night of january six, and last week she publicly defended cassidy hutchison against attacks by trump allies. matthews has already given a recorded deposition to the committee and the person who led her questioning was this man, john wood, former united states attorney brought on by a senior investigative counsel for the january 6th investigation. we saw him questioning witnesses at a hearing last month. mr. wood led the investigations gold team, which examined trump's involvement in the capitol attack itself, a

this case with cassidy hutchison and the witness tampering is inescapable.s to be investigated and it needs to go to the grand jury and it needs to be done yesterday. my guess is that in the united states attorney's office in d.c., they've already done it. once you get to the witness tampering, once you add an all of the subpoenas they go out on the fake electors, we are pulling the thread on the sweater. it is just one more thing for -- that forces sam garland to act. it is a new low that we would prosecute a president as he leaves office. garland is not want to be that person but he will have to be that person. >> and is that good or bad? good about that he wants to be that person? >> it's terrible for our country that we have to prosecute the next president, but it's worse not to because what is happening here, the ex president has tried to overthrow the government and we can't just walk away and say okay, let's bring our hands and how are we going to do it. we can't do that. we have to prosecute him. we have to prosecute the witness tampering. we have to

it corroborates the testimony of cassidy hutchison, it corroborates the information, the case that theix committee is already making against donald trump. and his inner circle. and, you know, i think it is also important to understand that he came to the committee to testify only under subpoena, and only after weeks and weeks of the hearing sort of banned during clinton trying telling him to do something. so i think it is critical information idiotically have. we don't know what he said but, if it is not contradictory to what has previously been said, that seems to suggest that the committee is on the right past. also, i just wanna say that i don't think that pat cipollone's hero, in order think that anything people have testified our heroes. because i think that they should have said all the stuff a long time before, before the january six committee hearings actually to park. >> so charles, can he keep is actually making interesting point for me. it is never a sure thing that cipollone was going to testify. so i think a lot of folks who made a big deal about that. is this a situation

lty with cassidy hutchison that is next (grandmother) thank you for taking me home. it's so far.young woman) don't worry about it, grandma! this'll be fun. (young woman) two chocolate milkshakes, please. (grandmother) make it three. (young woman) three? (grandmother) did you get his number? (young woman) no, grandma! grandma!! (grandmother) excuse me! (young woman vo) some relationships get better with time. that's why i got a crosstrek. (avo) ninety-six percent of subaru vehicles sold in the last ten years are still on the road. (grandmother) i'm so glad you got a subaru. (young woman) i wonder who gave me the idea? (avo) love. it's what makes subaru, subaru. age is just a number. and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health. versus 16 grams in ensure high protein. boost® high protein also has key nutrients for immune support. boost® high protein. there's a monster problem and our hero needs solutions. so she starts a miro to brainstorm. “shoot it?” suggests the scientists. so they shoot it. hmm... back to the miro board. dave says “fee

if you had another cassidy hutchison of a witness. >> looking ahead to tomorrow, two important notes. it's happening in primetime, expect a large audience, that's to tell us something. have your sources, nicholas, on the committee, giving you a sense of what we should expect in thursday's hearing, given the platform that it is going to be held in? and what's new information might these two witnesses have? >> with regard to the witnesses, congresswoman -- one of the two lawmakers, was asked about the witnesses stand. she said -- and also, matthew pottinger, former security official -- would be able to talk to how he was believing in the work he was doing in the trump white house. but he did not -- for sarah matthews, she would be able to speak to what was going on in the white house at the time. we could expect the committee to use them to try to piece together these remaining bits. what exactly was happening in the white house during the roughly three hours from beginning until trump told the rioters to leave. but moving into the bigger picture, what's the committee is likely to do at

cassidy hutchison delivered perhaps the most damning evidence of wrongdoing by donald trump and someies. during the two hours of questioning, mismatches son aimed to the white house chief of staff mark meadows with a narrative that had yet to occur. trump's own actions on january six. i won't, point how justin described the white house attorney warning her about letting trump march to the mob with the capitol. quote, we will be charged with every crime imaginable. the house committee has formally subpoenaed mr. cipollone to testify. he has until wednesday to submit a response to the committee. even trump's former attorney general things the doj actually is his former boss could be imminent. shortly after tuesday's hearing, barr told the new york times that the department is clearly looking into all of this. this hearing gave investigators a lot to chew on. the question remains, will these increasingly incriminating carries to mince the department justice to pursue criminal charges against his ex president and allies. joining me now -- is a former u.s. attorney and msnbc contributor.

committee allegedly interviewed heim for 7 1/2 hours and never asked him about the statements that cassidy hutchison made that appeared to be in conflict with what we thought pat cipollone said about where he was that day and that conversation but they didn't ask about those things that appear to be in conflict so we're not going to get that answer. let me ask you, do you think we'll get an answer about things about which anguscy is responsible for response? intel reported that there was going to be potential uprisings that day. who is responsible for activating or not activating those groups? is that an answer we'll get to as well? >> those are the kinds of questions i wish we were focusing on, all right? if we were following what i suggested last year is just let the committees of jurisdiction where you have members appointed, democrats and republicans, go follow the facts, for example the house judiciary committee. let's investigate this and follow what d.o.j. has done. they've made some arrests. let's get the reports on those arrests. who are they? what were they doing? why don't we follow to re

when we've heard from cassidy hutchison, what he said, this is not hearsay, this is stuff he said tot he was, you know, he said, we will be prosecuted for every crime imaginable. if the president goes. so he was pretty aware. and also, his deputies associate white house counsel have spoken to the committee, some of the most colorful testimonies of come from them. so i agree, that's an enormous shoot drop one way or the other. david rohde, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> coming up as of today, florida's so-called don't say gay law is now in effect. and already the results are both ludicrous and dangerous. how it's plain out, after this. discover the power of 3 in the ozempic® tri-zone. in my ozempic® tri-zone, i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. announcer: ozempic® provides powerful a1c reduction. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known heart disease. and you may lose weight. adults lost up to 14 pounds. ozempi

nbc news has confirmed on friday but the message was for cassidy hutchison, and the person who left the message was mark meadows. this is all according to a person familiar with hutchison's deposition. what is the proper accountability here. what does justice look like in all of this? >> well tiffany, i have worked in law enforcement, but i have also worked with mark meadows. and we worked on the oversight committee, and a lot of that is very disappointing but my hat is off to miss hutchison. isn't it a shame that a 24-year-old is the one that would come forward a person without a powerful position, but someone who has not taken a powerful stance to hold people accountable. if i was still a police detective, i would be very interested in that text message that she received from someone who is pretty much buried in this investigation. >> yes, and i'm curious, just to pretend that merrick garland, the attorney general, is watching this broadcast right now. what would be your recommendation to department of justice considering all of the things that we have heard, and the two systems of ju

says the call came soon after the blockbuster hearing featuring former trump white house aide cassidy hutchisonnted to join the group at the capitol. >> we were watching the capitol building get defaced over a lie. >> reporter: it is the latest in a series of accusations of possible witness tampering. >> are you all concerned about the safety of are you all concerned about the safety of these witnesses? >> we are absolutely concerned about the safety of our witnesses and their safety is our paramount interest so we're going to do everything we can to protect them. we're going to refer to the justice department any information we have about anyone trying to influence or intimidate a witness. >> reporter: the committee says it's still interested in hearing from steve bannon. in newly released audio bannon is heard predicting trump would claim victory no matter what. >> reporter: in court today, banon's lawyers asked to delay, saying the publicity of that >> reporter: in court today, banon's lawyers asked to delay, saying the publicity of that leaked audio and the committee's hearings would enflam

the communication could be key from cassidy hutchison who said donald trump demanded agents take himtol and he got into a physicallal sister case with an agent. >> he said i'm the f-ing president take me up to the alcohol now. >> virginia democrat elaine luria sits on the panel. >> are you concerned about those secret service messages? >> very concerned about those secret service messages. the communications he was protecting the president and vice president at a critical time on jab scict that's of utmost interest to the committee. >> erased its own text mention. april the texts were requested to be turned over as part of an internal reviewful capitol riot. the secret service hasn't been fully cooperating with that internal review. the agency disputed the charges but says some data was lost during a previously scheduled system migration. >> to allow such importantly evidence to be erased really just looks very odd and this is what gives rise to questions about what actually happened and why the secret service did what it did. >> reporter: about those allegation about a confrontation

what led him to make an expressed a concern, as cassidy hutchison expressed. if he did so, then good on him for that. i have been in a miss fight about why he might be able to cast on the events of january 6, but whatever led him to come to that conclusion, it may not have been based on any substantive intelligence, just his view as a citizen, as a former member of congress and as a tee and i, what could happen. it may indicate that he did have insight into what was a foot with the assault to be on the capitol. the other thing i would be interested in is if he was pressed by the white house or the president personally to push these false narratives about the assault being led by nfl or a false flag for the fbi, or had some foreign involvement -- the other thing i think the committee might ask him about is if he was involved in or aware of discussions about potential invoking at the 25th amendment. >> i want to turn now to the president biden's call with his chinese counterpart today. the major issue discussed was that one, would teaching thing tongue biden, qu

of talk in such blunt ways about the way she sees the world and the courage that she sees in cassidy hutchison. she said if i don't get re-elected, oh well. >> did you see the line that got the applause? >> holy cow, craig. that's the commentary we've been accustomed to. >> yeah. can she pander any more? one sound bide, she used a first person pronounce five times in one sentence. this is all about her. this is all about her self-awareness. there's nothing about real ideology or anything else. if she's so worried about the commission and what they're investigating, why not investigate the summer of hate when the left burned 200 cities and caused $2 billion of damage and injured dozens of people, killed dozens of people? why isn't that being investigated? >> laura: as a historical matter, she said the country never face add domestic threat like this. never. historically. >> insanity. she doesn't know her history. we faced wars, depressions. we faced many, many major issues over 230 years. this is nothing compared to -- we faced a civil water, the american revolution. all of these things make th

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. >>> a tough week with cassidy hutchison testifying on tuesday, a few days ago. mentioned the white house counsel, the top lawyer, this guy. they call him mr. cipriani. we can end this tough week with something more lighthearted. that's how automatic computerized closed captioning tried to deal with somebody saying mr. sibley only. >>> a different example is people posting to the internet with the closed captions reading, it will pass if it's only. then, the computer tried pass on belongings. my favorite is, ms. hutchinson, did you have any conversation with patsy baloney. patsy baloney, and pat cipriani is pretty close. president biden meets virtually with democratic governors today to talk about the future of abortion rights. we'll keep an eye on that can talk about it on social media. on facebook, finely there. >>> eviction protections in california expire at midnight. not necessarily a big impact on those just trying to make it in the bay. still pressuring the state for an extension. tens of thousands of people still waiting on rent relief approval. they may

that report of course's testimony from cassidy hutchison that not only was president trump warned earlier on january 6th the crowds near the capitol were quite heavily armed, but the people choosing to go through the metal detectors that had tons of weapons confiscated from. he was one of the people choosing not to go through the metal detectors or choosing to avoid going through magnetometer's in part because they wanted to keep their weapons on them. trump responded to that information allegedly by saying that he wanted the metal detectors for his rally taken down so the crowd wouldn't have to have their guns taken away for them to be able to attend. whoever wanted to use those weapons against, he figured it wasn't him. >> i heard the president say i don't care that they have weapons, they're not here to hurt me -- >> they're not here to hurt me, let the people in with weapons, and then we'll go to the capitol. again, we have known that information for a couple of weeks because of testimony from white house staffer cassidy hutchinson. but that information we can now put in the context o

meanwhile the house minority leader kevin mccarthy, who cassidy hutchison said was one of the republicans who pleaded for trump to call things off claims she doesn't remember him calling her that i don't think i wanted a lot of people coming up to the capitol, but i don't remember the conversation. >> reporter: and, boris and sara, we're learning more about the timeline when the inspector general of the department of homeland security may have first learned the text messages may have been deleted. it's much earlier than he may have told congress. they could have been gone as early as may of 2021. that's more than a year before he informed the congressional oversight committees that were interested in this information and also the january 6th select committee. i spoke on friday with jamie raskin, a member of the committee. he told me he is very suspicious about the way these text were deleted, and he believed the committee needs to know more about why they were deleted and if it's possible to retrieve these messages in any way, shape, or form. boris and sara? >> ryan nobles from capitol hi

during the hundred and 87 minutes, right after trump finish at his rally, in the ellipse, cassidy hutchisontested fide that he got into the vehicle it was demanding to be taken to the capitol and attacked a secret service agent when he didn't get his way. those text could share insight on critical moments during the crisis, or critical moment, if there are indeed found in vaping uploaded as john just alluded to. >> well absolutely. it is remarkable that it is the fifth and the six that are the dates these text messages are missing for. you have to be some kind of conspiracy theories to think this looks bad. so i think it could show anything from, yes, that widely spread rumor that was going around that the incident took place that has now but confirmed by other secret service agents. it also, i think, exposes -- i'm someone who worked closely with secret service and had tremendous respect for the organization. but they have not come out looking shining in this whole investigation. they have been stonewalling. we have still not heard from tony ornato who his claim that cassidy hutchinson's t

there was cassidy hutchison, the young white house aide, how president trump had tried to force the skecret service detais to take him to capitol hill. now we know text messages were deleted from secret service phones, and there's metadata that shows ten messages that were sent. now, the secret service had been told to hold onto these messages, but then they were er erased. this is not a good look for this agency, so what questions do you have in all of this? >> yeah, that's an understatement, not a good look. they've been trying to come up with various stories over the last two weeks about how this was a natural upgrade and people didn't -- just deleted all of their texts. that's clearly not true. the secret service has a problem, which is a certain number of their agents felt authorized to delete or weren't worried about deleting a lot of texts with the relevant dates. so as you said, metadata is going to tell us a lot. it's going to tell us who was texting whom and at what times. it may not tell us the content. there may be other means to get the content. overall, that agency needs new l

they felt that cassidy hutchison had more corroboration with what she had to say. so i expect to hear a lot more about this. we may even have some more witnesses come forward and testify publicly about these events. but the select committee having interviewed all the people involved a different points didn't feel that cassidy hutchinson was the most credible. and felt comfortable putting her out there publicly for the whole world to see. >> there are signs that pets baloney may agree to a transcribed interview, limited to specific topics. can you talk us through the mechanics of a transcribed interview and how much that could impact than what he has to offer the committee? >> i think because of some genuine privileges that he may still have, attorney client privilege, even executive privilege, there are some areas that he probably cannot talk about. but there are plenty of other areas he can. of course, he is not donald trump demands lawyer, he's the lawyer of the president united states. to the extent that those positions diverge, his legal skills were being repre

they said about his role that cassidy hutchison evoking the same, i'm interested in the idea that this meeting at the white house where former president trump was close to possibly doing away with the acting attorney general and installing another acting attorney general, jeffrey clark, was very interested in trying to get the states to overturn the elections. pat cipollone was saying that that was not a good idea. he was also as someone who looked -- was seen as team normal. so pat cipollone as much as he is someone as seen as loyal to president trump, he was somebody who had to be the lawyer to all these moves and actions that president trump wanted to take. so there's also this transparency that he can bring in that moment. also those 187 minutes between when the capital riot began and when former president trump finally spoke out against it. what was going on in that time period? pat cipollone can be critical to that lawmakers say that is a key focus of their investigation. >> you know what happened during those 187 minutes? nothing normal, which is why the name team normal is inco

reactions still pouring into cassidy hutchison's stunning testimony before the january six committee.house aides was capitol police officer harry dunn. i spoke with him on my peacock show about his reaction to the claim that trump knew his supporters were armed, but urged them to march on the capitol anyway. >> it was a lot to process. it was a weird, emotional moment for me. i would use the word portrayal. it is one of the toughest emotions to process and that moment. it felt -- it hurts that. >> do you want to see prosecutions up into the highest level that a people that were involved you want just american to see the truth of that? >> all of you hear the truth about that, there is no way that you any reasonable person would not say that this needs to end in prosecution. no one else above the law. doesn't matter who it is, whether it's the president of the united states or the lowest aid in the white house. even just some random citizen. no one is above the law. if you participated in any illegal activity that they, leading up to it, you need to be held accountable. i hope that the

. >> cassidy hutchison's lawyer? >> it is my understanding. she had someone who had been in the white house counsel's office and still aligned with trump world. she did her interview. she complied with the committee. but she shared with me, there is more i want to share that was not asked in those settings, how do we do this? and in that process, she got a new attorney of her own. >> the name that the former white house staffer there was searching for was pasantino, her lawyer until a month ago, a former white house lawyer with all kinds of trump world connections, was he being paid by trump to represent ms. hutchinson? we don't know that. we reached out to mr. pasantino today but we have not heard back. but what we do know is that a law firm that he runs has been getting regular payments of tens of thousands of dollars from that very same trump save america pac. here are the payments from trump's save america pac to pasatino's firm, elections llc for the last year and a half for legal consulting payments ranging from $10,000 to $45,000 multip

as a prosecutor you have to do the best with what you can and between the testimony of cassidy hutchison which filled in those links, sarah matthews, we will start to get a better sense of what donald trump was doing and not doing, and what was his reaction to what he was watching when the vast majority of people in the country were horrified at what we were seeing, we've seen indications, stephanie grisham said that she saw donald trump, who was gleeful at what he was watching. we will have to fill in the blanks, i know the committee keeps saying minute by minute, they are not going to be able to give us minute by minute but they can be quite a bit to fill in the three-hour seven minute gap. >> the first time. >> one of the things i feel like i've learned in his hearing is how important this to:24 tweet was. think about what was going on at that moment, the capital is under attack at that moment, the assault has begun, and what does the president do? he attacks mike pence, and we have seen video of the rioters reading the tweet out loud and saying, look, the president is with us. it is

tuesday will be the first time that the committee will publicly convene says cassidy hutchison, a former white house aide gave her bombshell testimony about what was happening inside the white house during the insurrection. her testimony reignited interest in what information former white house counsel pencil pallone might have to share. cipollone was subpoenaed right after this testimony. on friday, he sat down for a marathon eight-hour interview the committee. yesterday the spokesman for the committee said, quote, in our interview with mr. cipollone, the committee received critical testimony on nearly every major topic and its investigation, reinforcing key points regarding donald trump's misconduct of providing highly relevant new information that will play a central role in its upcoming hearings. this includes information demonstrating donald trump supreme dereliction of duty. course, all these relevant stations come back around to donald trump of self. -- she said that the former president was known to throw plates of food, even reportedly get into an altercation with a secret servi

some indication from committee members saying he did not discount any of the testimony from cassidy hutchison. gary, what are we learning about woody share? >> he said later in that interview is not the same as confirming. that's a really big get from the january 6th committee. that was videotaped in his deposition under oath, in person. this is something that other witnesses have placed in the room, at the white house, on january six, and the days leading up to january six. in conversations specifically, as it relates to donald trump's interest and heading appear to the capitol on that day. so how did this deposition go? we are learning a lot from the sources here at nbc. we are that it was eight hours inland. that's one of the longest depositions that this committee has hell. we told he was cooperative throughout. we're also told he did not use his fifth amendment privileges. however, he did use executive privilege, but i'm not sure how much he did. shall he did so at least once or twice their yachtsman. >> let's look ahead. i'm sure we're gonna be hearing some trickle of course when it com

given cipollone's testimony now that seems to be a reaction to the testimony we had just from cassidy hutchisonmer president's actions on january 6th including apparent knowledge that members of that crowd were armed and that the president still was encouraging them to go towards the capitol. do you sense, and based on your conversations with other former members, assuming you have had them, of the president's team, that the legal tide might be turning ge ing against the form president. >> i haven't had any conversations with members of the president's former team but i can tell you that public relations and the legal tide are turning against the president on this -- the former president on this, no question about it. the facts in a keep coming out. the fact that -- you know, take the mags away, they aren't here to hurt me is what the president said. knowing they are armed. knowing they are going to go to the capitol. all of those things are bad facts for donald trump, no question about it. >> there is some reporting that this has accelerated, not decelerated the former president's intentions o

. >> to refresh your memory, here's what cassidy hutchison said under a penalty of perjury. >> i was still in the tent behind stage, and when you're behind the stage you can't really hear what's going on in front of you so when mr. mccarthy called me with this information i answered the call and he sounded rushed but also frustrated and angry at me. i was confused because i didn't know what the president had just said. he then explained the president just said he's marching to the capitol. you told me this whole week you aren't coming up here, why would you lie to me? i said i'm not lying, i wasn't lying to you, sir. we're not going to the capitol, and he said well, he just said it on stage, cassidy, figure it out. don't come up here. >> that we're joined by committee member and illinois republican congressman adam kinzinger. thanks for being here. the inspector general for the department of homeland security knew about the missing secret service text messages over a year before alerting your committee, seven months earlier that officials previously stated. does that make any sense t

gonna come under oath to lie so they just have to put this out there when everybody knew that cassidy hutchisonelling the truth cushy testified under oath and these unnamed sources were just lying. at some point the rest of the media needs to catch up to reality and stop platform-ing these liars uncritically but. >> i will say, the new york times had good reporting on that night that he rebuffed calls and part of what makes the line so insidious, is that chris miller and kash patel were cronies going on tv to say that was the case. so they were the officials at issue. it's just that they were not telling the truth in public, and then when you got miller under oath, well then you actually get the real story. the other thing about this that strikes me, is that there is this narrative of teen normal versus team crazy that they have built in the committee, i think it's been savvy because it's like here are the constitutionally heroic or republicans, and here are the coup supporters and there's a distinction between the two. but the fact that team normal hasn't got on january 7th, is just complete b

what we know about this day is mainly from cassidy hutchison, right? who talks about a confrontation between the president and a secret service agent, as he's trying to convince them to go to the capitol. cassidy hutchinson says that she heard that the president tried to reach for the steering wheel. now, secret service agents, off the record, not under subpoena, not under oath, they have said, you know, they've disputed parts of that. but there has been other cooperation to her account of what happened that day. so their firsthand account and their firsthand experience of those crucial moments on january 6th are key to this investigation. it goes to what donald trump was doing and what he was thinking during those hours. so the committee very much wants to hear from these folks. >> they certainly do. shan, the inspector general, as you know, has launched a criminal investigation into these missing text messages. what does that tell you? >> well, it tells me what we're all smiuspicious about, they're also thinking about that, as well. it was just two bi

minutes during which they use bulger and misogynistic language to attack two other witnesses, cassidy hutchison and grab that. as for the secret service text messages that are missing from the safe. we learned that of the messages sent to receive of 24 individuals, the agency has only managed to provide the select committee with one single exchange. the committee elation leadership said they have concerns. so, if all that falls on when you make all the debit side of the ballot she. there are also items on the other side. new york judge today ordering rudy giuliani to appear before the georgia grand jury, probing election interference. their bipartisan group of -- beefing up the election to count act, which would make it harder to me -- an attorney general garland today has drawn the signal that when it comes to bring criminal charges in connection to the former president, and no one is immune to prosecution. >> no person [inaudible] can -- i cannot say many more clearly than that to prevent us from investigating anyone, anyone, who is criminally responsible. for an attempt to undo a democratic